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[Music]

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we live in a reality of phantoms and

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monsters they exist Among Us and

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sometimes they win even the devil was an

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angel once the world has its own rules

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and these rules are not human

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some of us seek answers to the origin

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and existence of Cryptids and The

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Unexplained

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join us as we venture beyond the known

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and accepted boundaries Welcome to our

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nightmare I think you're going to like

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it

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foreign

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monsters radio where we explore the

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strains and The Unexplained I'm your

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host Lon strickler and thanks for

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joining us now if you enjoy the content

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then please subscribe like and share our

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presentations and please feel free to

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comment

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uh we like to get an idea of what your

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thoughts are on the uh the show the

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guests and everything

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um Super Chat is active during the show

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so please show your support of families

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of monsters radio by clicking the dollar

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icon under the chat

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if you um you can also support the

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channel by using the buy me a coffee

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link uh your consideration is very much

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needed and appreciated so tonight

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prior to pursuing his dream of becoming

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a full-time author and musician in 2015

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Joshua kutchen served as public affairs

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director of the University of Georgia

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Hugh Hodgkins School of Music for three

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years during his tender at UGA Joshua

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authored over 100 articles press

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releases and blog posts

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Joshua has appeared on countless

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paranormal programs discussing his work

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including Coast to Coast Mysterious

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Universe uh Bunnell America expand

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perspectives in the gorillion report he

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has also been featured in the hit uh

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History Channel television show Ancient

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Aliens and his recurring Roundtable

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guest on the where did the road go

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podcast

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is the author of seven critically

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acclaimed books a Trojan Feast the food

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and drink offerings of the aliens

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fairies and Sasquatch the brimstone

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deceit and in-depth examination of

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Supernatural scents other worldly odors

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and monsters miasmas

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thieves in the night a brief history of

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supernatural child abductions and where

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the footprints in high strangers in the

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Bigfoot phenomena volumes one and two

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that was with Timothy Renner and in 2022

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he released his two-part Masterwork

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Ecology of souls a new mythology of

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death in the Paranormal which we will be

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talking about this evening

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uh in 2023 you will see the release of

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fairy films we folked on the big screen

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a collection of essays for which he is

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the editor and the contributor he also

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appears alongside co-author Timothy

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Renner in the 2023 documentary I believe

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in Bigfoot and tonight uh Bernadette

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mcdano who's investigator and researcher

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with fam's master of Fortune research

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will be joining us as a co-host and she

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will soon be premiering her own show a

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paranormal life

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so Joshua thanks for coming on tonight

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it's so good to always catch up with

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Elon uh you know we should do it more

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often than just when a new book comes

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out here yeah I know I agree with you uh

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it's been a while it has been a while

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and you know um I don't always meet

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someone as open to new ideas as yourself

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so it's always appreciate to catch up

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and and bounce ideas off of each other

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well I tell you

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death in the Paranormal I mean what else

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can you say about that I mean you know

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it kind of goes hand in hand uh I

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haven't read all of your book I've read

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parts of it it's it's really interesting

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it's a lot of different stuff in there I

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didn't even imagine would be put into a

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book

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but uh tell us a bit about it and how

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you got involved in doing this

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well like a lot of us uh the last couple

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of years have been hard and I've had

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some personal stuff that's uh kind of

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fed into that and I came out the other

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side of that experience and I

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I said Now's the Time to do this because

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I've been playing with this idea in the

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back of my head just sort of taking note

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of things as I as I look through

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research in my other books and there

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were two things that always really stuck

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with me that I just didn't know what to

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do with and the first one is that uh

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in the wake of publishing communion uh

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Whitley strieber was just inundated with

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correspondence from different

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experiencers who were seeking to you

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know let him know that they had also had

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some other odd things happening in their

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lives and I get the impression that Anne

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his wife was sort of acting almost like

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a personal assistant and helping him

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manage all this massive amount of

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Correspondence correspondence so that it

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is now housed at the uh Fondren library

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at Rice University they just had a big

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ceremony announcing those archives but

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uh he has made it a point in several of

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his books to

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uh to take note of an observation that

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Anne had and he says he remembers going

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into the study and there being a list of

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observations that she had made and the

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one that he keeps on bringing up in his

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books is she wrote down this has

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something to do with what we call death

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referring to the UFO contact experience

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which is very much not what you would

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expect from something like the

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Extraterrestrial hypothesis

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um you know what what do little green

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scientists from another planet have to

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do with human dead

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so there was that data point and you

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know ever since I heard that I've sort

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of been looking for these other data

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points as they go along and uh

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sort of to confirm if that's really a

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suspicion that's worth investigating and

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sure enough if you look for it you can

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find people who have these experiences

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and see dead loved ones or you know get

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acquaintances of word Craft

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um and

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it seemed to me like one of the biggest

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mysteries that there was right and and

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death is you know just a gigantic

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mystery to begin with so I thought that

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I could get in and out of this with one

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book I had no desire to split it into

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two it's split into two now this is a

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pure function of uh of its size uh I I

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put the three books together and it's

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like that because because it's it's just

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that big and I knew nobody would want to

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buy something that was that was that big

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I say three books because it has four

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thousand endnotes so all the references

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and the appendices listing different

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cases are just in that third book but um

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once I started sort of picking apart at

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this it became really apparent that well

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you can't talk about this without

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talking about near-death experiences and

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near-death experiences uh seem to have

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something to do with uh with a lot of

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these Altered States Of Consciousness I

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mean we're looking at the work of like

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Kenneth ring and Eddie Bullard who have

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really shown this sort of uh

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relationship between the alien abduction

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experience and shamanic initiation and

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Altered States Of Consciousness and

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near-death experiences so it just sort

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of just it kept on blossoming and kind

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of honestly getting out of control to

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the extent that I was like well if I'm

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going to write this book there are

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certain things about the way that we

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used to think about the human soul and

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about that transition of death that

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really need to be provided as an

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informative background

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so that's what volume one ended up being

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is what was like talking about these

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ancient ideas talking about how maybe

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even something like you know ancient

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monuments uh you know Stone circles and

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and fairy forms and stuff like that fit

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into this and uh you know there's also

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the fairy connection which anybody is

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familiar with my work

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will know that I've been long fascinated

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and I think

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that this death connection is something

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that kind of haunts the background of

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Jacques filet's 1969 passport to begonia

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you know a foundational text for what I

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do

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but the lady did a great job of saying

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it looks like this modern UFO phenomenon

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seems to be echoing a lot of aspects of

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older mythology including especially

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rather

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the the fairy faith and there's another

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sort of implication that lies beyond

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Behind that which is the fact that a lot

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of these cultures Associated the fairies

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with the human dead

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so if you apply the transitive property

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if if fairies were closely associated

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with sometimes literally being the human

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dead then what does that say about

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aliens so closely resembling uh these

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fairy encounters from yesteryear so as

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you can see like it just snowballs until

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you're like well it kind of became this

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sort of snapshot of the way that I kind

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of think about the Paranormal now and I

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can't I would like to escape it at some

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point but right now for me being in the

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midst of it it's really compelling to

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myself so I decided to share that with

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everyone and and and uh you know it as

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you mentioned like no grudges about you

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not finishing it because it is a pretty

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darn big book and I consider it one book

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and it's it's yeah I think it's 300 and

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400 Pages respectively to Wade through

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it's a lot it really is I you know and

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it's funny

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uh interesting because

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every time I get involved with the case

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yeah and it doesn't matter what kind of

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case it is uh Cryptid UFO

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you know anything like that there's

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always a death

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and the Paranormal or Spirit or energy

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um

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yeah why is that so much so prevalent in

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the Paranormal I mean that's that's a

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great that's a great question and you

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know I think that part of it has to do

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with the fact that

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it death is the greatest mystery of all

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you know

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um so it kind of I think to be

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completely honest I think that it kind

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of becomes a catch-all for a lot of this

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folks

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um but at the same time uh if you look

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through a lot of these mythologies

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there's there's not a lot of distinction

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between really what we would call

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nowadays other dimensions and what they

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would once have called other worlds in

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the afterlife like a lot these are

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really sort of um nebulous distinctions

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if we won't even try to draw

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distinctions between them you know I

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mean Fairyland is an excellent example

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we've got these stories of Fairyland as

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being sort of this place that isn't

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necessarily the afterlife but it

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sometimes is a place where the dead

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congregate or the dead or scene you know

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they're countless stories where people

277
00:11:14,150 --> 00:11:10,260
uh enter Fairyland either from you know

278
00:11:16,430 --> 00:11:14,160
walking into a fairy Circle or you know

279
00:11:19,370 --> 00:11:16,440
perhaps again descending into one of

280
00:11:21,290 --> 00:11:19,380
those uh orange Iron Age ring Forks that

281
00:11:24,650 --> 00:11:21,300
I mentioned that later became fairy

282
00:11:26,329 --> 00:11:24,660
Forts and uh and seeing people in their

283
00:11:27,829 --> 00:11:26,339
Community who had just died you know

284
00:11:29,329 --> 00:11:27,839
invariably in these Legends these are

285
00:11:31,610 --> 00:11:29,339
the people who say Don't eat or drink

286
00:11:33,949 --> 00:11:31,620
anything because you know you'll get

287
00:11:35,630 --> 00:11:33,959
trapped here and you know in some ways I

288
00:11:37,069 --> 00:11:35,640
guess that was probably the first time

289
00:11:38,509 --> 00:11:37,079
that I Came Upon This when I was riding

290
00:11:40,670 --> 00:11:38,519
a Trojan Phoenix and I'm reading about

291
00:11:42,590 --> 00:11:40,680
you know fairies which are supposed to

292
00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:42,600
be these lovely little Elemental Sprites

293
00:11:46,009 --> 00:11:44,160
that are running through the forest and

294
00:11:49,130 --> 00:11:46,019
helping things grow and there's all this

295
00:11:50,990 --> 00:11:49,140
death symbolism associated with it

296
00:11:52,610 --> 00:11:51,000
um so yeah I think that's probably part

297
00:11:56,569 --> 00:11:52,620
of it is that just we don't

298
00:11:59,449 --> 00:11:56,579
we once lacked the distinction between

299
00:12:01,730 --> 00:11:59,459
these other Realms and death in a way

300
00:12:03,530 --> 00:12:01,740
that we that we've set up today you know

301
00:12:05,030 --> 00:12:03,540
today it's like well you die and you go

302
00:12:06,230 --> 00:12:05,040
to heaven where you go to hell and you

303
00:12:08,030 --> 00:12:06,240
know there must be other dimensions that

304
00:12:09,650 --> 00:12:08,040
are something completely different but

305
00:12:11,990 --> 00:12:09,660
it's not as clear in those older texts

306
00:12:14,090 --> 00:12:12,000
for sure

307
00:12:16,750 --> 00:12:14,100
yeah and it's not clear now either I

308
00:12:20,630 --> 00:12:16,760
mean it's like no

309
00:12:25,190 --> 00:12:20,640
I mean I I think you know it seems like

310
00:12:27,949 --> 00:12:25,200
my interpretation of of death uh in the

311
00:12:31,250 --> 00:12:27,959
afterlife in other worlds

312
00:12:34,190 --> 00:12:31,260
just is just evolving all the time it

313
00:12:35,210 --> 00:12:34,200
it's never it's never anything set in

314
00:12:37,250 --> 00:12:35,220
stone

315
00:12:39,530 --> 00:12:37,260
I think that's healthy though I mean you

316
00:12:40,790 --> 00:12:39,540
know I I say at some point in book two

317
00:12:43,790 --> 00:12:40,800
that like

318
00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:43,800
I'm kind of terrified by this thing that

319
00:12:48,769 --> 00:12:45,600
I've just written because I find it so

320
00:12:51,050 --> 00:12:48,779
appealing and in my opinion you know a a

321
00:12:53,090 --> 00:12:51,060
a mind that's made up is a calcified

322
00:12:55,009 --> 00:12:53,100
mind you know it's brittle and it breaks

323
00:12:56,870 --> 00:12:55,019
and it it's you get rigid and you get

324
00:12:58,370 --> 00:12:56,880
sort of married to these ideas

325
00:13:01,610 --> 00:12:58,380
um so the the fact that you know your

326
00:13:04,790 --> 00:13:01,620
your ideas are constantly evolving is I

327
00:13:06,650 --> 00:13:04,800
think a really admirable trait

328
00:13:10,430 --> 00:13:06,660
um you know at the same time I kind of

329
00:13:12,350 --> 00:13:10,440
feel like a lot of modern paranormalists

330
00:13:15,110 --> 00:13:12,360
have really tried to reinvent the wheel

331
00:13:17,509 --> 00:13:15,120
you know we have this underpinning of

332
00:13:19,069 --> 00:13:17,519
trying to approach this as a science and

333
00:13:20,449 --> 00:13:19,079
that's not to say that science can't be

334
00:13:21,829 --> 00:13:20,459
applied to some of this stuff in fact

335
00:13:25,190 --> 00:13:21,839
science should be applied to some of

336
00:13:27,710 --> 00:13:25,200
this stuff but a lot of these terms that

337
00:13:29,870 --> 00:13:27,720
you will see are just new sort of

338
00:13:32,389 --> 00:13:29,880
sciency reworkings of these ideas that

339
00:13:33,710 --> 00:13:32,399
we've just had all along

340
00:13:35,870 --> 00:13:33,720
um and you know one of the things that I

341
00:13:38,690 --> 00:13:35,880
made sure not to do in this book is I

342
00:13:41,210 --> 00:13:38,700
didn't try to you know I didn't try to

343
00:13:42,710 --> 00:13:41,220
rework what the afterlife is or what

344
00:13:45,590 --> 00:13:42,720
death is where it ghosts are simply

345
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:45,600
because the book's big enough as it is

346
00:13:50,389 --> 00:13:47,519
um but also because you know it's just I

347
00:13:53,090 --> 00:13:50,399
think that there's something kind of

348
00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:53,100
elegant with how simply we once

349
00:13:55,910 --> 00:13:54,480
interface with those ideas I'm

350
00:13:56,810 --> 00:13:55,920
definitely open to the idea that ghosts

351
00:13:59,030 --> 00:13:56,820
are

352
00:14:00,829 --> 00:13:59,040
Time Slips or any number of other things

353
00:14:02,629 --> 00:14:00,839
any number of alternate theories but for

354
00:14:04,610 --> 00:14:02,639
for this purpose it was just like let's

355
00:14:08,389 --> 00:14:04,620
just say that they're The Souls of the

356
00:14:10,790 --> 00:14:08,399
dead and move on from there right

357
00:14:12,829 --> 00:14:10,800
you know while writing this and I know

358
00:14:14,269 --> 00:14:12,839
that you you were almost two years in

359
00:14:16,790 --> 00:14:14,279
writing is

360
00:14:18,470 --> 00:14:16,800
um what surprises came up

361
00:14:20,629 --> 00:14:18,480
I mean was there anything that really

362
00:14:23,269 --> 00:14:20,639
surprised you

363
00:14:26,449 --> 00:14:23,279
um I mean that you kind of shook your

364
00:14:28,490 --> 00:14:26,459
thoughts from previous uh you know

365
00:14:30,590 --> 00:14:28,500
interpretations

366
00:14:32,329 --> 00:14:30,600
so I mean absolutely the thing something

367
00:14:33,530 --> 00:14:32,339
that I've been really resistant towards

368
00:14:35,509 --> 00:14:33,540
for a while

369
00:14:37,550 --> 00:14:35,519
my good friend Soraya ask Kath has

370
00:14:41,090 --> 00:14:37,560
brought this up ever since I've known

371
00:14:43,370 --> 00:14:41,100
him right and uh and Soraya has often

372
00:14:45,230 --> 00:14:43,380
talked about these phenomena being

373
00:14:48,290 --> 00:14:45,240
self-generated now in order to be really

374
00:14:50,689 --> 00:14:48,300
clear Soraya doesn't mean that this is

375
00:14:52,550 --> 00:14:50,699
an hallucination or that it's not real

376
00:14:54,470 --> 00:14:52,560
or objectively real in some way but but

377
00:14:55,790 --> 00:14:54,480
but that somehow we are self-generating

378
00:14:58,069 --> 00:14:55,800
these phenomena

379
00:15:00,350 --> 00:14:58,079
and I was always really hesitant to that

380
00:15:02,269 --> 00:15:00,360
because you know

381
00:15:05,810 --> 00:15:02,279
at the end of the day like

382
00:15:07,790 --> 00:15:05,820
I I won't uh Bigfoot to be a big monkey

383
00:15:10,129 --> 00:15:07,800
in a way you know at the end of the day

384
00:15:12,230 --> 00:15:10,139
I want aliens UFOs rather to be

385
00:15:14,269 --> 00:15:12,240
extraterrestrials in a way

386
00:15:16,009 --> 00:15:14,279
um so the idea that like it's somehow a

387
00:15:17,329 --> 00:15:16,019
completely human thing uh was something

388
00:15:20,269 --> 00:15:17,339
that I was always really resistant to

389
00:15:22,790 --> 00:15:20,279
but once I started looking at one of the

390
00:15:24,710 --> 00:15:22,800
ideas that really ended up permeating

391
00:15:26,870 --> 00:15:24,720
this book was this idea of uh poly

392
00:15:27,889 --> 00:15:26,880
psychism and this is why I think you

393
00:15:29,689 --> 00:15:27,899
know

394
00:15:31,069 --> 00:15:29,699
a new mythology of death in the

395
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:31,079
Paranormal is a little bit misleading

396
00:15:35,090 --> 00:15:33,360
because the real heart of the matter is

397
00:15:37,310 --> 00:15:35,100
that it's Ecology of Souls and it's that

398
00:15:39,230 --> 00:15:37,320
idea of you know reincarnation gets

399
00:15:41,210 --> 00:15:39,240
brought up and uh the afterlife of

400
00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:41,220
course but also things like poly

401
00:15:46,189 --> 00:15:44,160
psychism which is such an elegant idea

402
00:15:48,530 --> 00:15:46,199
that I think it could solve some of the

403
00:15:50,350 --> 00:15:48,540
heartache that we have nowadays um poly

404
00:15:53,269 --> 00:15:50,360
psychism is an idea that a lot of

405
00:15:55,730 --> 00:15:53,279
indigenous cultures and a lot of ancient

406
00:15:57,350 --> 00:15:55,740
cultures uh it really embraced you see

407
00:15:58,970 --> 00:15:57,360
this especially in you know ancient

408
00:16:02,269 --> 00:15:58,980
Egypt where they suggested that we had

409
00:16:03,889 --> 00:16:02,279
as many as nine Souls I think or you

410
00:16:05,150 --> 00:16:03,899
know in in Norse folk or the idea that

411
00:16:06,530 --> 00:16:05,160
you have multiple souls and that there

412
00:16:09,530 --> 00:16:06,540
are other things that are within you

413
00:16:11,810 --> 00:16:09,540
that might even have their own degree of

414
00:16:13,490 --> 00:16:11,820
autonomy and be able to go out and do

415
00:16:15,410 --> 00:16:13,500
their things I mean it arguably that's

416
00:16:17,269 --> 00:16:15,420
where a lot of this werewolf sort of

417
00:16:18,829 --> 00:16:17,279
folklore comes from is this idea that

418
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:18,839
you have a separable soul that can go

419
00:16:22,430 --> 00:16:20,880
out and do its own thing and once you

420
00:16:24,710 --> 00:16:22,440
start looking at some of these phenomena

421
00:16:26,689 --> 00:16:24,720
through that lens it's kind of hard to

422
00:16:28,430 --> 00:16:26,699
unsee it you know I mean these these

423
00:16:31,370 --> 00:16:28,440
different experiences are often so

424
00:16:34,610 --> 00:16:31,380
tailored to the witnesses when they

425
00:16:38,030 --> 00:16:34,620
interact with entities that that can

426
00:16:41,269 --> 00:16:38,040
communicate you'll find that they know

427
00:16:44,210 --> 00:16:41,279
the experiencer sometimes better than

428
00:16:45,530 --> 00:16:44,220
they know themselves and so the idea

429
00:16:47,689 --> 00:16:45,540
that there's something within you that

430
00:16:49,730 --> 00:16:47,699
can sort of go about on its own and

431
00:16:52,430 --> 00:16:49,740
maybe even interact with you from a

432
00:16:55,310 --> 00:16:52,440
third person standpoint is something

433
00:16:57,710 --> 00:16:55,320
that I really didn't want to

434
00:16:58,910 --> 00:16:57,720
engage with but I ended up finding

435
00:17:00,350 --> 00:16:58,920
really compelling and you know that's

436
00:17:02,030 --> 00:17:00,360
sort of been a guiding ethos of what

437
00:17:04,669 --> 00:17:02,040
I've tried to do there are two things

438
00:17:05,870 --> 00:17:04,679
that I think that I have really two

439
00:17:07,669 --> 00:17:05,880
things that I think have really guided a

440
00:17:11,090 --> 00:17:07,679
lot of my work the first one is

441
00:17:12,710 --> 00:17:11,100
to take some little observation that

442
00:17:14,390 --> 00:17:12,720
someone has made in passing and sort of

443
00:17:15,829 --> 00:17:14,400
like expand upon it so like that was

444
00:17:18,650 --> 00:17:15,839
what Brimstone deceit was right the

445
00:17:20,210 --> 00:17:18,660
brimstone deceit was all about looking

446
00:17:21,770 --> 00:17:20,220
at people saying oh there's a smell of

447
00:17:23,809 --> 00:17:21,780
sulfur and then just moving on I'm like

448
00:17:25,130 --> 00:17:23,819
wait wait hold on hold on what does that

449
00:17:27,289 --> 00:17:25,140
mean you know let's let's unpack what

450
00:17:28,549 --> 00:17:27,299
these smells mean in these cases but the

451
00:17:30,890 --> 00:17:28,559
other thing that's really guided me is

452
00:17:32,750 --> 00:17:30,900
to kind of lean into stuff that I'm

453
00:17:36,110 --> 00:17:32,760
uncomfortable with quite frankly right

454
00:17:38,150 --> 00:17:36,120
and uh the idea of this phenomenon these

455
00:17:40,190 --> 00:17:38,160
phenomena but you know thinking about

456
00:17:41,690 --> 00:17:40,200
the UFO phenomenon specifically being

457
00:17:44,029 --> 00:17:41,700
self-generated it's something that I

458
00:17:45,289 --> 00:17:44,039
don't like but you know if I'm gonna be

459
00:17:46,970 --> 00:17:45,299
intellectually honest I think it's

460
00:17:50,450 --> 00:17:46,980
something to pursue I mean a similar

461
00:17:52,909 --> 00:17:50,460
thing like I didn't know what to do with

462
00:17:55,190 --> 00:17:52,919
these stories of reincarnation and alien

463
00:17:56,990 --> 00:17:55,200
abductions or pre-birth memories I mean

464
00:17:58,970 --> 00:17:57,000
that kind of makes me

465
00:18:00,890 --> 00:17:58,980
pull back a little bit like it's it's

466
00:18:02,630 --> 00:18:00,900
like as someone who is who is really

467
00:18:04,250 --> 00:18:02,640
kind to the woo thinking like it's

468
00:18:05,330 --> 00:18:04,260
almost like a bridge too far for me but

469
00:18:08,210 --> 00:18:05,340
at the same time these stories aren't

470
00:18:10,310 --> 00:18:08,220
going away and you hear them a lot okay

471
00:18:12,289 --> 00:18:10,320
so if you're gonna be so you know I

472
00:18:14,390 --> 00:18:12,299
think it anybody who has a problem with

473
00:18:15,830 --> 00:18:14,400
something like that like take a closer

474
00:18:17,210 --> 00:18:15,840
look at it and see what maybe you can

475
00:18:18,770 --> 00:18:17,220
learn and see if maybe there's some way

476
00:18:20,330 --> 00:18:18,780
you can sort of fit it into your

477
00:18:22,549 --> 00:18:20,340
existing worldview in some sort of way

478
00:18:24,590 --> 00:18:22,559
so that was that ended up being a big

479
00:18:26,029 --> 00:18:24,600
part of this too for me or a big

480
00:18:28,490 --> 00:18:26,039
surprise I guess

481
00:18:30,289 --> 00:18:28,500
he we got a question from who's these

482
00:18:33,049 --> 00:18:30,299
Sanchez which I think is pretty good um

483
00:18:36,650 --> 00:18:33,059
could Purgatory actually be here on

484
00:18:38,510 --> 00:18:36,660
Earth where Spirits tend to roam today

485
00:18:41,330 --> 00:18:38,520
the short answer is yes

486
00:18:43,610 --> 00:18:41,340
um and in fact in some uh In some

487
00:18:45,409 --> 00:18:43,620
cultures in some ancient times uh it was

488
00:18:46,669 --> 00:18:45,419
literally thought of as that you know

489
00:18:48,230 --> 00:18:46,679
you have the famous St Patrick's

490
00:18:50,210 --> 00:18:48,240
Purgatory in Ireland which was sometimes

491
00:18:53,210 --> 00:18:50,220
conceptualized as like a physical cave

492
00:18:55,789 --> 00:18:53,220
but um there I have a chapter that deals

493
00:18:57,590 --> 00:18:55,799
with uh it's kind of like my leyline

494
00:19:01,730 --> 00:18:57,600
chapter but it ends up dealing with

495
00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:01,740
these ideas of you know Ley lines that

496
00:19:07,070 --> 00:19:04,320
old UFO ufological idea of orthotny the

497
00:19:08,690 --> 00:19:07,080
idea that UFOs travel in straight lines

498
00:19:10,370 --> 00:19:08,700
um but also the wild Hunt and if

499
00:19:13,029 --> 00:19:10,380
anybody's familiar with the wild Hunt it

500
00:19:17,029 --> 00:19:13,039
was you know oftentimes considered

501
00:19:18,890 --> 00:19:17,039
uh a a pagan observation um

502
00:19:20,450 --> 00:19:18,900
there's some dispute as to whether or

503
00:19:22,190 --> 00:19:20,460
not it was because everything gets mixed

504
00:19:23,630 --> 00:19:22,200
up with Christianity but once the

505
00:19:25,070 --> 00:19:23,640
Christians got once the Christians got

506
00:19:26,870 --> 00:19:25,080
their hands on it it can't kind of

507
00:19:28,130 --> 00:19:26,880
became a mobile purgatory and if

508
00:19:31,010 --> 00:19:28,140
anyone's unfamiliar with this it's the

509
00:19:32,510 --> 00:19:31,020
idea that some sort of leader uh it

510
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:32,520
could be Hearn the hunter it could be

511
00:19:37,730 --> 00:19:35,280
Odin it could be King Arthur some sort

512
00:19:39,409 --> 00:19:37,740
of leader would would process across the

513
00:19:41,930 --> 00:19:39,419
landscape at relatively predictable

514
00:19:44,150 --> 00:19:41,940
times of year and but oftentimes you

515
00:19:46,970 --> 00:19:44,160
know endanger anyone who was caught in

516
00:19:48,289 --> 00:19:46,980
its path but uh in that Army especially

517
00:19:50,450 --> 00:19:48,299
if the leader was sort of a more

518
00:19:53,210 --> 00:19:50,460
nefarious character or a pagan character

519
00:19:55,430 --> 00:19:53,220
it would be the unrepentant dead

520
00:19:57,169 --> 00:19:55,440
um who signed who kind of evolved into

521
00:19:59,750 --> 00:19:57,179
demons over time but the unrepentant

522
00:20:02,090 --> 00:19:59,760
Dead who would be featured in that uh in

523
00:20:03,890 --> 00:20:02,100
that procession so yeah the idea that

524
00:20:05,930 --> 00:20:03,900
Purgatory somehow exists here on Earth

525
00:20:08,690 --> 00:20:05,940
is is definitely resonant with that to

526
00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:08,700
say nothing of you know even older

527
00:20:12,350 --> 00:20:10,559
Gnostic ideas this planet's a prison

528
00:20:14,230 --> 00:20:12,360
which God knows it feels like it

529
00:20:21,830 --> 00:20:14,240
nowadays

530
00:20:26,750 --> 00:20:24,770
I just I think it's interesting how your

531
00:20:29,930 --> 00:20:26,760
take is on the fairies because I'm I'm

532
00:20:33,169 --> 00:20:29,940
very big into like fairies you know

533
00:20:34,970 --> 00:20:33,179
myself but I just I think

534
00:20:37,970 --> 00:20:34,980
um if I read correctly you even had a

535
00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:37,980
part where you know a transitioning into

536
00:20:43,490 --> 00:20:41,520
a fairy if I'm not mistaken I read yeah

537
00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:43,500
so this is something that doesn't really

538
00:20:48,049 --> 00:20:46,799
sit well with uh a lot of love and light

539
00:20:51,770 --> 00:20:48,059
people and I say that with all the love

540
00:20:53,390 --> 00:20:51,780
in my heart like I I I I I I I I just

541
00:20:55,010 --> 00:20:53,400
spoke at a conference in August that was

542
00:20:56,390 --> 00:20:55,020
that was very much love and light and

543
00:20:57,710 --> 00:20:56,400
they're wonderful people um but

544
00:20:59,630 --> 00:20:57,720
something that doesn't sit well with a

545
00:21:02,390 --> 00:20:59,640
lot of people are the idea that

546
00:21:04,730 --> 00:21:02,400
fairies weren't always conceptualized in

547
00:21:06,710 --> 00:21:04,740
the sort of nature Spirit sort of way we

548
00:21:08,390 --> 00:21:06,720
largely have theosophy to blame for that

549
00:21:10,610 --> 00:21:08,400
we have theosophy to blame for a lot of

550
00:21:13,490 --> 00:21:10,620
things but but theosophy was also to

551
00:21:14,810 --> 00:21:13,500
blame for that the 19th century movement

552
00:21:17,150 --> 00:21:14,820
uh

553
00:21:19,730 --> 00:21:17,160
spearheaded by Helena blavatsky prior to

554
00:21:22,310 --> 00:21:19,740
theosophy a lot of cultures viewed

555
00:21:24,770 --> 00:21:22,320
fairies as being very closely tied to

556
00:21:27,890 --> 00:21:24,780
the dead almost as a way of sort of

557
00:21:29,570 --> 00:21:27,900
reconciling some of these anomalies that

558
00:21:32,630 --> 00:21:29,580
we've seen nowadays they would say oh

559
00:21:34,190 --> 00:21:32,640
it's fairies which are the dead and this

560
00:21:36,590 --> 00:21:34,200
is something that always puzzled me but

561
00:21:40,250 --> 00:21:36,600
uh there is the work of

562
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:40,260
former sorbonne historian of medieval uh

563
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:42,000
history I guess you would be a historian

564
00:21:46,370 --> 00:21:44,400
of History wouldn't you um Claude lekuto

565
00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:46,380
And if anybody has not read Claude

566
00:21:50,570 --> 00:21:49,200
lekuto's books they are my favorite UFO

567
00:21:53,149 --> 00:21:50,580
books and they have nothing to do with

568
00:21:54,529 --> 00:21:53,159
UFOs because you read these books and

569
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:54,539
he's talking about you know spirits of

570
00:21:59,149 --> 00:21:56,400
the land and household spirits and

571
00:22:01,010 --> 00:21:59,159
things like the wild Hunt and you know

572
00:22:03,350 --> 00:22:01,020
it just you see all these little

573
00:22:05,630 --> 00:22:03,360
Hallmarks of the UFO phenomenon cropping

574
00:22:07,130 --> 00:22:05,640
up in these stories and you know it's

575
00:22:09,110 --> 00:22:07,140
interesting because you read lekuto's

576
00:22:11,390 --> 00:22:09,120
work and you can kind of tell that he

577
00:22:12,590 --> 00:22:11,400
he has some sort of belief in these

578
00:22:14,990 --> 00:22:12,600
things and you know maybe that's why

579
00:22:17,990 --> 00:22:15,000
he's a former swordball historian but uh

580
00:22:19,549 --> 00:22:18,000
but lekuto um put forth he explained it

581
00:22:22,130 --> 00:22:19,559
really well in one of his books the sort

582
00:22:24,950 --> 00:22:22,140
of mechanism by which people could

583
00:22:26,149 --> 00:22:24,960
basically die and become fairies and the

584
00:22:27,529 --> 00:22:26,159
way that he explained it and you find

585
00:22:29,029 --> 00:22:27,539
this in in the work of some other

586
00:22:31,909 --> 00:22:29,039
ethnographers who are interested in

587
00:22:35,029 --> 00:22:31,919
these subjects but someone who was a

588
00:22:37,970 --> 00:22:35,039
revered individual like a chief or a

589
00:22:39,350 --> 00:22:37,980
shaman or a great warrior would be

590
00:22:40,970 --> 00:22:39,360
buried at a place and of course

591
00:22:43,130 --> 00:22:40,980
naturally their grave site would be

592
00:22:44,810 --> 00:22:43,140
revered but over time over successive

593
00:22:46,370 --> 00:22:44,820
Generations their memory had either be

594
00:22:48,590 --> 00:22:46,380
forgotten or it would sort of evolve

595
00:22:50,270 --> 00:22:48,600
into being genus loci a spirit of the

596
00:22:52,070 --> 00:22:50,280
land and they would sort of be revered

597
00:22:54,890 --> 00:22:52,080
in that area and that might become a

598
00:22:58,190 --> 00:22:54,900
fairy Glenn or something like that

599
00:23:00,230 --> 00:22:58,200
um and you do find this uh in this is

600
00:23:03,350 --> 00:23:00,240
not merely a theory because it it does

601
00:23:05,390 --> 00:23:03,360
appear in really um tangible ways bariat

602
00:23:07,430 --> 00:23:05,400
Shaman sometimes I believe it's burning

603
00:23:09,169 --> 00:23:07,440
at shamans would be

604
00:23:10,549 --> 00:23:09,179
um buried in a location for a period

605
00:23:12,169 --> 00:23:10,559
Then they would be their coffins would

606
00:23:13,549 --> 00:23:12,179
be exhumed and they'd be buried in a new

607
00:23:15,409 --> 00:23:13,559
location where they would sort of

608
00:23:18,350 --> 00:23:15,419
transfer into being the guardian Spirit

609
00:23:20,149 --> 00:23:18,360
of that place you find similar ideas in

610
00:23:22,070 --> 00:23:20,159
that are readily of readily uh

611
00:23:25,789 --> 00:23:22,080
observable and like Polynesia and

612
00:23:27,409 --> 00:23:25,799
whatnot so uh it does seem like that

613
00:23:29,750 --> 00:23:27,419
might be something that's kind of going

614
00:23:32,090 --> 00:23:29,760
on but at the same time

615
00:23:34,430 --> 00:23:32,100
you know uh my my friend and colleague

616
00:23:35,630 --> 00:23:34,440
Morgan Daimler who is somebody who talks

617
00:23:37,610 --> 00:23:35,640
on fairies and I just take it to the

618
00:23:39,350 --> 00:23:37,620
bank she as she likes to say uh you know

619
00:23:41,149 --> 00:23:39,360
the fairies are the dead except when

620
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:41,159
they're not and they're they're

621
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:42,960
Elemental Spirits except when they're

622
00:23:46,190 --> 00:23:44,640
not so I think that what we end up

623
00:23:47,690 --> 00:23:46,200
seeing is that a lot of these categories

624
00:23:49,909 --> 00:23:47,700
once you make that transition will

625
00:23:52,850 --> 00:23:49,919
become really

626
00:23:54,590 --> 00:23:52,860
um blur you know and and my working

627
00:23:56,810 --> 00:23:54,600
model that I have in my head is that we

628
00:23:59,870 --> 00:23:56,820
just sort of all go into this sort of

629
00:24:03,190 --> 00:23:59,880
animist soup on the other side and uh

630
00:24:05,690 --> 00:24:03,200
you know from that spring all sorts of

631
00:24:08,330 --> 00:24:05,700
terrifying and wonderful things and if

632
00:24:10,190 --> 00:24:08,340
you look at that it sort of makes uh it

633
00:24:12,590 --> 00:24:10,200
sort of makes

634
00:24:14,270 --> 00:24:12,600
some of the inconsistencies in

635
00:24:15,710 --> 00:24:14,280
reincarnation a little bit more

636
00:24:18,110 --> 00:24:15,720
understandable you know I was just

637
00:24:19,850 --> 00:24:18,120
watching a a comedy special black

638
00:24:21,649 --> 00:24:19,860
comedian who was joking about people who

639
00:24:23,270 --> 00:24:21,659
believe in past lives and how you know

640
00:24:24,950 --> 00:24:23,280
some three different people show up at a

641
00:24:26,990 --> 00:24:24,960
party and all think that they were once

642
00:24:28,789 --> 00:24:27,000
Napoleon Bonaparte or all think that

643
00:24:31,190 --> 00:24:28,799
they're once Cleopatra but I kind of

644
00:24:33,289 --> 00:24:31,200
wonder if little bits and pieces of

645
00:24:35,270 --> 00:24:33,299
of other people in past lives don't get

646
00:24:37,130 --> 00:24:35,280
put into all of us like again like like

647
00:24:38,630 --> 00:24:37,140
the idea of rivers going to a sea and

648
00:24:40,370 --> 00:24:38,640
then you know coming back out of it

649
00:24:41,830 --> 00:24:40,380
again so that was a long Meandering

650
00:24:45,770 --> 00:24:41,840
answer for your question

651
00:24:47,630 --> 00:24:45,780
no that's perfect and also how can you

652
00:24:50,690 --> 00:24:47,640
explain how like the changelings come

653
00:24:51,770 --> 00:24:50,700
about how you can be you know reborn is

654
00:24:54,110 --> 00:24:51,780
a changeup

655
00:24:56,029 --> 00:24:54,120
well I found that interesting yeah so

656
00:24:57,770 --> 00:24:56,039
that no that's a great question

657
00:24:59,510 --> 00:24:57,780
um so if anybody is wondering

658
00:25:02,029 --> 00:24:59,520
changelings were

659
00:25:04,190 --> 00:25:02,039
substitutions for human children

660
00:25:06,649 --> 00:25:04,200
um you find them predominantly in fairy

661
00:25:09,070 --> 00:25:06,659
folklore but sometimes you can find it

662
00:25:10,909 --> 00:25:09,080
depending on the the

663
00:25:13,789 --> 00:25:10,919
civilization that you're looking at you

664
00:25:15,590 --> 00:25:13,799
can find it ascribed to Wild men and

665
00:25:17,210 --> 00:25:15,600
Spirits in general and demons and even

666
00:25:18,649 --> 00:25:17,220
lake monsters in some North American

667
00:25:20,750 --> 00:25:18,659
traditions

668
00:25:22,730 --> 00:25:20,760
um but the idea was that something would

669
00:25:24,470 --> 00:25:22,740
come and would replace your child with

670
00:25:25,070 --> 00:25:24,480
one of their own in the fairy folklore

671
00:25:27,470 --> 00:25:25,080
which is where you hear about

672
00:25:30,289 --> 00:25:27,480
changelings most often this is either a

673
00:25:33,169 --> 00:25:30,299
sickly elderly fairy or a fairy infant

674
00:25:34,549 --> 00:25:33,179
or uh something that was disguised to

675
00:25:35,930 --> 00:25:34,559
look like a fairy like an inanimate

676
00:25:38,510 --> 00:25:35,940
object that's disguised to look like a

677
00:25:39,529 --> 00:25:38,520
fairy or sorry this guy's look like a

678
00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:39,539
child

679
00:25:44,930 --> 00:25:42,720
um the reasons behind this uh vary uh

680
00:25:47,029 --> 00:25:44,940
lots of times it would be the idea that

681
00:25:48,769 --> 00:25:47,039
the fairy babies needed mortal milk to

682
00:25:51,049 --> 00:25:48,779
consume because fairy food was always a

683
00:25:55,070 --> 00:25:51,059
sham but what I find really interesting

684
00:25:58,250 --> 00:25:55,080
is the fact that horrifically

685
00:26:00,950 --> 00:25:58,260
um lots of human children were

686
00:26:02,930 --> 00:26:00,960
supposedly rescued from Fairyland and I

687
00:26:05,330 --> 00:26:02,940
use that term very broadly by basically

688
00:26:06,649 --> 00:26:05,340
abusing them in some pretty horrific

689
00:26:08,330 --> 00:26:06,659
ways we're talking about abandonment

690
00:26:09,890 --> 00:26:08,340
we're talking about burning them with

691
00:26:12,769 --> 00:26:09,900
hot tongs we're talking about beating

692
00:26:14,990 --> 00:26:12,779
them I mean clearly child abuse and

693
00:26:16,669 --> 00:26:15,000
there's plenty of cases of children who

694
00:26:19,909 --> 00:26:16,679
didn't survive this and I don't want to

695
00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:19,919
dismiss that but I do find it really

696
00:26:24,470 --> 00:26:22,320
interesting when you look at

697
00:26:27,130 --> 00:26:24,480
um when you look at some of the research

698
00:26:30,769 --> 00:26:27,140
that's gone into the incidence of

699
00:26:32,510 --> 00:26:30,779
childhood trauma and experiencers not

700
00:26:35,750 --> 00:26:32,520
saying that every experiencer has had

701
00:26:37,669 --> 00:26:35,760
childhood trauma but I do think that it

702
00:26:39,289 --> 00:26:37,679
might help facilitate that sort of

703
00:26:41,750 --> 00:26:39,299
contact and this is not an idea that's

704
00:26:43,130 --> 00:26:41,760
unique to me you'll find this in the

705
00:26:45,710 --> 00:26:43,140
work of Kenneth ring you'll find it

706
00:26:47,930 --> 00:26:45,720
mentioned some in Jeff kreibel's work

707
00:26:50,390 --> 00:26:47,940
but there's this idea that that trauma

708
00:26:52,310 --> 00:26:50,400
might actually help induce dissociative

709
00:26:54,289 --> 00:26:52,320
states which put you into contact with

710
00:26:55,789 --> 00:26:54,299
that other world so I kind of wonder

711
00:26:57,529 --> 00:26:55,799
sometimes if

712
00:26:58,970 --> 00:26:57,539
these parents who are abusing their

713
00:27:02,090 --> 00:26:58,980
children thinking that their changelings

714
00:27:04,310 --> 00:27:02,100
aren't responsible for for that sort of

715
00:27:06,289 --> 00:27:04,320
like interaction with the spirit world

716
00:27:07,730 --> 00:27:06,299
in their own way and you know to that

717
00:27:09,350 --> 00:27:07,740
extent the number of the number of

718
00:27:10,909 --> 00:27:09,360
children who would return from Fairyland

719
00:27:13,549 --> 00:27:10,919
and become

720
00:27:15,470 --> 00:27:13,559
basically their cultures seers Mystics

721
00:27:16,669 --> 00:27:15,480
or shamans is pretty striking like you

722
00:27:18,230 --> 00:27:16,679
know in Western Europe a lot of children

723
00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:18,240
would return from Fairyland and grow up

724
00:27:23,570 --> 00:27:20,640
to be priests or clergyman so there's

725
00:27:26,029 --> 00:27:23,580
that aspect but there's also this really

726
00:27:28,490 --> 00:27:26,039
tantalizing hint that you'll find in

727
00:27:30,950 --> 00:27:28,500
some of the Irish ethnographers like I'm

728
00:27:33,169 --> 00:27:30,960
thinking about lady Gregory and uh lady

729
00:27:34,370 --> 00:27:33,179
Wilde Oscar Wilde's mother as it just so

730
00:27:36,890 --> 00:27:34,380
happens

731
00:27:38,930 --> 00:27:36,900
um who talk about

732
00:27:40,850 --> 00:27:38,940
these you know these fairy babies these

733
00:27:42,950 --> 00:27:40,860
changelings having these sick little

734
00:27:44,630 --> 00:27:42,960
wizard faces they're all wrinkly and

735
00:27:47,930 --> 00:27:44,640
stuff and and there's one explicit

736
00:27:48,769 --> 00:27:47,940
example where uh they say that it's sort

737
00:27:50,930 --> 00:27:48,779
of

738
00:27:53,090 --> 00:27:50,940
a human an elderly human man who has

739
00:27:54,470 --> 00:27:53,100
died and come back as this changeling so

740
00:27:56,390 --> 00:27:54,480
again we see these lines between the

741
00:27:58,549 --> 00:27:56,400
fairy folklore and death and

742
00:28:00,890 --> 00:27:58,559
reincarnation really becoming blurred in

743
00:28:03,490 --> 00:28:00,900
a lot of ways and to that extent you

744
00:28:06,470 --> 00:28:03,500
know there are also these stories of

745
00:28:08,330 --> 00:28:06,480
fairies experiencing sort of an inverse

746
00:28:10,430 --> 00:28:08,340
of emotions whenever someone comes or

747
00:28:12,409 --> 00:28:10,440
leaves our world so you know they laugh

748
00:28:13,669 --> 00:28:12,419
at funerals and cry at Birth so it's

749
00:28:16,190 --> 00:28:13,679
almost like this idea that there's a

750
00:28:18,350 --> 00:28:16,200
revolving door between these worlds uh

751
00:28:20,090 --> 00:28:18,360
that that that that that's happening or

752
00:28:22,430 --> 00:28:20,100
that that we're interacting with

753
00:28:24,830 --> 00:28:22,440
hmm

754
00:28:27,950 --> 00:28:24,840
um I got I got something I want you to

755
00:28:31,250 --> 00:28:27,960
look at I um you were talking about the

756
00:28:34,610 --> 00:28:31,260
wild Hunt and it's interesting I had a

757
00:28:38,810 --> 00:28:34,620
trail cam image come up to me from July

758
00:28:44,029 --> 00:28:38,820
of 2018 in tankenberg which is in the

759
00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:44,039
Netherlands and uh this was actually

760
00:28:48,169 --> 00:28:46,080
captured I don't know if he's got it up

761
00:28:49,490 --> 00:28:48,179
there yet or not in the Netherlands in

762
00:28:54,769 --> 00:28:49,500
the Netherlands

763
00:28:56,230 --> 00:28:54,779
and uh supposedly there was a temple to

764
00:28:58,789 --> 00:28:56,240
tampana

765
00:29:00,769 --> 00:28:58,799
that was destroyed by the room is that

766
00:29:02,029 --> 00:29:00,779
rested on this hill where it was taken

767
00:29:05,810 --> 00:29:02,039
at so

768
00:29:08,149 --> 00:29:05,820
anyway from what I gather the person who

769
00:29:10,610 --> 00:29:08,159
placed the trail cam on the hill

770
00:29:13,070 --> 00:29:10,620
was attempting to capture an image of

771
00:29:15,890 --> 00:29:13,080
the strange ghost-like entity that

772
00:29:18,169 --> 00:29:15,900
people kept observing on the hill

773
00:29:21,409 --> 00:29:18,179
the image that was captured made the

774
00:29:24,649 --> 00:29:21,419
rounds on the internet but not you know

775
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:24,659
um but many compared it to the legendary

776
00:29:30,169 --> 00:29:28,320
being of Dirk you know who would ride

777
00:29:33,169 --> 00:29:30,179
with the Gods on the top of his wild

778
00:29:36,470 --> 00:29:33,179
board during the wild Hunt

779
00:29:37,669 --> 00:29:36,480
so this is as you've been talking I've

780
00:29:39,529 --> 00:29:37,679
been sitting here trying to figure out

781
00:29:41,570 --> 00:29:39,539
what the heck this could be if it's not

782
00:29:43,789 --> 00:29:41,580
what it looks like right

783
00:29:46,909 --> 00:29:43,799
um but you know I have a couple things

784
00:29:50,090 --> 00:29:46,919
spring to mind I mean that looks like a

785
00:29:51,830 --> 00:29:50,100
a lance or a spear in its hand you know

786
00:29:54,889 --> 00:29:51,840
yeah but the other interesting thing too

787
00:29:56,810 --> 00:29:54,899
is that you know we we have tended to

788
00:29:58,610 --> 00:29:56,820
think over the years of the wild Hunt as

789
00:30:01,010 --> 00:29:58,620
involving horses and and for the most

790
00:30:02,750 --> 00:30:01,020
part they didn't they involved as luck

791
00:30:04,370 --> 00:30:02,760
would have it animals of the forest

792
00:30:06,830 --> 00:30:04,380
which you know a wild boar would

793
00:30:09,409 --> 00:30:06,840
certainly fit into that category as well

794
00:30:11,210 --> 00:30:09,419
and then I mean is that a large head or

795
00:30:13,130 --> 00:30:11,220
is that a Halo you know it's interesting

796
00:30:14,750 --> 00:30:13,140
no well it's interesting you know

797
00:30:16,490 --> 00:30:14,760
they're we normally think of Halo as

798
00:30:19,250 --> 00:30:16,500
being associated with divinity and

799
00:30:21,590 --> 00:30:19,260
that's by and far uh the sort of what

800
00:30:23,389 --> 00:30:21,600
you'll see but there are some older

801
00:30:26,510 --> 00:30:23,399
illuminated manuscripts that actually

802
00:30:28,430 --> 00:30:26,520
show revenants like the drowger and

803
00:30:30,049 --> 00:30:28,440
other sort of basically zombies uh

804
00:30:34,570 --> 00:30:30,059
having sort of a halo around their head

805
00:30:37,570 --> 00:30:34,580
too so that's that's wild that is

806
00:30:41,510 --> 00:30:37,580
fair to me

807
00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:41,520
it looks like hair to me very like very

808
00:30:46,730 --> 00:30:43,200
poofy hair

809
00:30:48,769 --> 00:30:46,740
it's it's I mean it's just that's me I I

810
00:30:51,049 --> 00:30:48,779
don't know what the hell it is but yeah

811
00:30:52,669 --> 00:30:51,059
apparently the people in this Village or

812
00:30:54,590 --> 00:30:52,679
in the area have been seeing this thing

813
00:30:57,169 --> 00:30:54,600
well and that's a part of the world you

814
00:31:02,230 --> 00:30:57,179
know it's really interesting because

815
00:31:05,750 --> 00:31:02,240
um it really becomes hard to to find

816
00:31:07,850 --> 00:31:05,760
wild Hunt legends that aren't you know

817
00:31:09,409 --> 00:31:07,860
mostly Western European like I think it

818
00:31:11,090 --> 00:31:09,419
kind of extends into the former Eastern

819
00:31:12,350 --> 00:31:11,100
Bloc States but you know you don't

820
00:31:14,990 --> 00:31:12,360
really see it in North America or South

821
00:31:18,110 --> 00:31:15,000
America as much or Australia or Africa

822
00:31:19,430 --> 00:31:18,120
but um the Netherlands definitely is a

823
00:31:22,070 --> 00:31:19,440
place where they have these Legends as

824
00:31:23,810 --> 00:31:22,080
well so that's that's fascinating

825
00:31:25,370 --> 00:31:23,820
yeah I thought I'd bring it up since you

826
00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:25,380
talked about the wild Hunt I said you

827
00:31:28,970 --> 00:31:27,360
know I had that photo and that image

828
00:31:31,070 --> 00:31:28,980
come up I know that's a show in that

829
00:31:32,570 --> 00:31:31,080
that's great that's got because honestly

830
00:31:35,029 --> 00:31:32,580
a lot I'll be completely honest with you

831
00:31:38,210 --> 00:31:35,039
usually I'm really ambivalent about

832
00:31:40,669 --> 00:31:38,220
photos and videos because you know well

833
00:31:42,590 --> 00:31:40,679
I mean too I mean it gets to be it's

834
00:31:45,049 --> 00:31:42,600
always like you know if it isn't an

835
00:31:46,669 --> 00:31:45,059
obvious hoax or something it's like okay

836
00:31:47,810 --> 00:31:46,679
well that's that's neat it's not going

837
00:31:50,810 --> 00:31:47,820
to prove anything at the end of the day

838
00:31:52,850 --> 00:31:50,820
but it's neat but that's that's I can't

839
00:31:55,010 --> 00:31:52,860
figure out what the heck that could be

840
00:31:56,810 --> 00:31:55,020
yeah other than other than what it looks

841
00:32:02,750 --> 00:31:56,820
like so I'm kind of yeah

842
00:32:09,049 --> 00:32:07,909
oh god um yeah you know uh Vincent had a

843
00:32:12,289 --> 00:32:09,059
question about

844
00:32:14,930 --> 00:32:12,299
the sulfur smell in Portal openings is

845
00:32:17,750 --> 00:32:14,940
there an association there somehow

846
00:32:22,250 --> 00:32:19,730
played with a lot of different ideas

847
00:32:24,590 --> 00:32:22,260
over the years and the one that I didn't

848
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:24,600
include as much in Brimstone deceit that

849
00:32:28,730 --> 00:32:26,640
I'm really regretful that I didn't was

850
00:32:32,210 --> 00:32:28,740
this idea that I've heard

851
00:32:36,590 --> 00:32:32,220
I actually read it I think again in uh

852
00:32:38,690 --> 00:32:36,600
in uh West Virginia UFOs by Bob teets I

853
00:32:40,970 --> 00:32:38,700
picked up an old copy of that and it's

854
00:32:43,490 --> 00:32:40,980
this idea that these things whatever

855
00:32:44,690 --> 00:32:43,500
they are assuming they're all from the

856
00:32:45,830 --> 00:32:44,700
same place which I know is a

857
00:32:47,090 --> 00:32:45,840
controversial statement or none of

858
00:32:49,310 --> 00:32:47,100
itself but let's assume for the time

859
00:32:52,070 --> 00:32:49,320
being that's the case that these things

860
00:32:54,289 --> 00:32:52,080
can only exist in our reality for so

861
00:32:55,250 --> 00:32:54,299
long before they start to atrophy or

862
00:32:57,590 --> 00:32:55,260
decay

863
00:32:59,510 --> 00:32:57,600
and you know the the sort of Brimstone

864
00:33:01,190 --> 00:32:59,520
smell which you know people call it

865
00:33:03,289 --> 00:33:01,200
Brimstone people call it sulfur most of

866
00:33:05,029 --> 00:33:03,299
the time they're describing hydrogen

867
00:33:06,169 --> 00:33:05,039
sulfide sometimes someone describing

868
00:33:07,850 --> 00:33:06,179
other things but that's generally

869
00:33:09,169 --> 00:33:07,860
speaking if you sort of look at the the

870
00:33:12,169 --> 00:33:09,179
way people describe it that seems to be

871
00:33:14,570 --> 00:33:12,179
what it is that's a smell that you would

872
00:33:16,250 --> 00:33:14,580
find wherever there's organic material

873
00:33:19,970 --> 00:33:16,260
that's decomposing in the absence of

874
00:33:21,289 --> 00:33:19,980
oxygen so you know I think there's

875
00:33:22,430 --> 00:33:21,299
something to it the idea that these

876
00:33:23,870 --> 00:33:22,440
things are coming in from somewhere else

877
00:33:24,950 --> 00:33:23,880
and that's part of the smell that's

878
00:33:25,970 --> 00:33:24,960
happening

879
00:33:27,889 --> 00:33:25,980
um you know one of the ideas that I

880
00:33:30,289 --> 00:33:27,899
played with in Brimstone to see

881
00:33:31,549 --> 00:33:30,299
was this idea it was Recent research at

882
00:33:32,630 --> 00:33:31,559
the time and I haven't gone back to

883
00:33:34,190 --> 00:33:32,640
follow up on it because it'll be really

884
00:33:36,289 --> 00:33:34,200
interesting to see what they did with it

885
00:33:38,570 --> 00:33:36,299
but it was research at the time that

886
00:33:41,210 --> 00:33:38,580
showed that uh carefully monitored

887
00:33:42,649 --> 00:33:41,220
amounts of hydrogen sulfide in lab mice

888
00:33:44,570 --> 00:33:42,659
could induce a state of suspended

889
00:33:47,509 --> 00:33:44,580
animation and what I generally found was

890
00:33:49,430 --> 00:33:47,519
that you had those smells like I would

891
00:33:51,350 --> 00:33:49,440
say if I was just trying to estimate

892
00:33:52,850 --> 00:33:51,360
about half the smells that you find in

893
00:33:55,610 --> 00:33:52,860
paranormal encounters when there is a

894
00:33:57,130 --> 00:33:55,620
smell reported are hydrogen sulfide and

895
00:34:00,649 --> 00:33:57,140
then there's like everything else right

896
00:34:02,149 --> 00:34:00,659
and what I found in that everything else

897
00:34:05,509 --> 00:34:02,159
category

898
00:34:07,669 --> 00:34:05,519
um was that a lot of those smell what

899
00:34:09,829 --> 00:34:07,679
are called trigeminal stimulants and

900
00:34:12,470 --> 00:34:09,839
trigeminal stimulants are something that

901
00:34:14,149 --> 00:34:12,480
anybody who's curious can go investigate

902
00:34:16,129 --> 00:34:14,159
right now like open up some vinegar and

903
00:34:18,710 --> 00:34:16,139
take a big whiff or even Windex right

904
00:34:19,790 --> 00:34:18,720
that feeling in your face is that's your

905
00:34:22,490 --> 00:34:19,800
largest nerve in your face is your

906
00:34:25,369 --> 00:34:22,500
trigeminal nerve and it's the same

907
00:34:26,210 --> 00:34:25,379
mechanism uh by which smelling salts

908
00:34:29,149 --> 00:34:26,220
work

909
00:34:31,790 --> 00:34:29,159
so you have the two roughly speaking the

910
00:34:33,649 --> 00:34:31,800
two types of smells that people notice

911
00:34:36,530 --> 00:34:33,659
either have the capacity to put you into

912
00:34:40,250 --> 00:34:36,540
an altered state suspended animation as

913
00:34:41,329 --> 00:34:40,260
the new research suggests or to Rouse

914
00:34:42,470 --> 00:34:41,339
you from an altered state of

915
00:34:44,629 --> 00:34:42,480
consciousness and I think that's really

916
00:34:46,010 --> 00:34:44,639
interesting is the idea that depending

917
00:34:46,970 --> 00:34:46,020
on what part of the experience people

918
00:34:49,129 --> 00:34:46,980
are remembering they're either

919
00:34:50,629 --> 00:34:49,139
remembering going into or coming out of

920
00:34:51,889 --> 00:34:50,639
this state and that's the smell they

921
00:34:53,930 --> 00:34:51,899
associate with it

922
00:34:55,970 --> 00:34:53,940
just an idea I played with I'm not even

923
00:34:58,849 --> 00:34:55,980
like I kind of like the the decaying

924
00:35:05,030 --> 00:34:58,859
entities idea more nowadays honestly

925
00:35:08,810 --> 00:35:07,910
the book you were talking about

926
00:35:10,910 --> 00:35:08,820
um

927
00:35:12,710 --> 00:35:10,920
I was thinking about this and I wanted

928
00:35:14,349 --> 00:35:12,720
to ask you for a long time and now I got

929
00:35:18,470 --> 00:35:14,359
the chance here I just thought about it

930
00:35:21,890 --> 00:35:18,480
I uh there's one particular odor smell

931
00:35:24,970 --> 00:35:21,900
that I get when I'm doing rving

932
00:35:28,550 --> 00:35:24,980
and at all it always shows up when I'm

933
00:35:31,250 --> 00:35:28,560
no there's energy around me

934
00:35:33,410 --> 00:35:31,260
and that's a cinnamon smell

935
00:35:35,990 --> 00:35:33,420
and I've had other people tell me the

936
00:35:37,970 --> 00:35:36,000
same thing that this cinnamon smell kind

937
00:35:40,790 --> 00:35:37,980
of pops up all the time

938
00:35:42,950 --> 00:35:40,800
you know so so first of all you're in

939
00:35:43,970 --> 00:35:42,960
Brimstone deceit I think twice I think

940
00:35:45,829 --> 00:35:43,980
there are two stories there's a story

941
00:35:48,890 --> 00:35:45,839
about the the ghost that passes through

942
00:35:51,130 --> 00:35:48,900
you and you smell Honeysuckle and I

943
00:35:53,329 --> 00:35:51,140
think maybe the

944
00:35:54,829 --> 00:35:53,339
Sykesville monster was there a smell

945
00:35:57,349 --> 00:35:54,839
associated with that

946
00:36:00,170 --> 00:35:57,359
yeah there was a uh there was a fox

947
00:36:02,390 --> 00:36:00,180
urine smell that I I got one yeah from

948
00:36:03,829 --> 00:36:02,400
this thing so you're in it twice and I

949
00:36:05,210 --> 00:36:03,839
if if I had known this you'd probably

950
00:36:05,990 --> 00:36:05,220
beat it three times

951
00:36:08,390 --> 00:36:06,000
um

952
00:36:09,349 --> 00:36:08,400
but uh you know I have I have a couple

953
00:36:11,349 --> 00:36:09,359
of different thoughts about that you

954
00:36:15,050 --> 00:36:11,359
know the first one is that

955
00:36:17,589 --> 00:36:15,060
uh smells are not supposed to you know

956
00:36:20,089 --> 00:36:17,599
supposed to in terms of scientific terms

957
00:36:21,890 --> 00:36:20,099
appear in dreams and Altered States Of

958
00:36:25,010 --> 00:36:21,900
Consciousness now I've talked to tons of

959
00:36:26,390 --> 00:36:25,020
people who say that they have smells in

960
00:36:27,710 --> 00:36:26,400
dreams in an Altered States Of

961
00:36:30,470 --> 00:36:27,720
Consciousness so that's the first thing

962
00:36:32,030 --> 00:36:30,480
but that cinnamon smell not only I think

963
00:36:34,190 --> 00:36:32,040
cinnamon is one of those trigeminal

964
00:36:37,010 --> 00:36:34,200
stimulants so that's kind of interesting

965
00:36:39,829 --> 00:36:37,020
but also you know that cinnamon smell is

966
00:36:43,010 --> 00:36:39,839
something that I ran into in you know

967
00:36:45,349 --> 00:36:43,020
quite a few UFO reports I believe is

968
00:36:48,109 --> 00:36:45,359
that right yeah I believe that that was

969
00:36:50,089 --> 00:36:48,119
one of the smells that um Ed Walters

970
00:36:53,150 --> 00:36:50,099
experienced during the Gulf Breeze cases

971
00:36:56,210 --> 00:36:53,160
if his initial if his initial reaction

972
00:36:59,030 --> 00:36:56,220
was genuine I think it was a sulfur

973
00:37:01,069 --> 00:36:59,040
spell I'm sorry a cinnamon smell um and

974
00:37:03,650 --> 00:37:01,079
then it was also one of the descriptors

975
00:37:05,210 --> 00:37:03,660
that Whitley strieber used uh is that

976
00:37:06,670 --> 00:37:05,220
right yep

977
00:37:09,470 --> 00:37:06,680
um

978
00:37:14,930 --> 00:37:09,480
yeah one time he said cinnamon and then

979
00:37:16,609 --> 00:37:14,940
later he said like cardboard and cheese

980
00:37:18,050 --> 00:37:16,619
um which I don't know how you mix those

981
00:37:19,550 --> 00:37:18,060
up but I think maybe those two different

982
00:37:21,290 --> 00:37:19,560
two different moments or something along

983
00:37:22,849 --> 00:37:21,300
those lines but yeah that was cinnamon

984
00:37:25,550 --> 00:37:22,859
was definitely one of them in fact I

985
00:37:28,270 --> 00:37:25,560
think there is uh like an alien

986
00:37:31,550 --> 00:37:28,280
abduction cologne that's come out and

987
00:37:34,069 --> 00:37:31,560
they based it in part on on that

988
00:37:35,329 --> 00:37:34,079
cinnamon uh that cinnamon bit that

989
00:37:38,210 --> 00:37:35,339
Whitley mentioned so there's some

990
00:37:39,470 --> 00:37:38,220
synonyms I think somebody back checked

991
00:37:41,270 --> 00:37:39,480
me on that

992
00:37:43,250 --> 00:37:41,280
that's strange because I've had it

993
00:37:44,329 --> 00:37:43,260
around my house a lot I've even talked

994
00:37:46,010 --> 00:37:44,339
to you about it

995
00:37:48,170 --> 00:37:46,020
a long time I sent you a message about

996
00:37:50,210 --> 00:37:48,180
it and it it was just like out of

997
00:37:53,270 --> 00:37:50,220
nowhere in the backyard there was no

998
00:37:55,490 --> 00:37:53,280
possible way that cinnamon could be in

999
00:37:56,510 --> 00:37:55,500
the backyard at the time well you know

1000
00:37:59,750 --> 00:37:56,520
what's interesting to me about the

1001
00:38:00,829 --> 00:37:59,760
cinnamon smell is it's not like you know

1002
00:38:03,349 --> 00:38:00,839
some of these smells that people

1003
00:38:05,270 --> 00:38:03,359
experience at hauntings are clearly

1004
00:38:07,790 --> 00:38:05,280
smells that have seeped into the wood

1005
00:38:09,470 --> 00:38:07,800
over time and release under a certain

1006
00:38:11,690 --> 00:38:09,480
atmospheric conditions like this is not

1007
00:38:13,010 --> 00:38:11,700
uncommon so like smoke is something that

1008
00:38:14,990 --> 00:38:13,020
you know cigar smoke or cigarette smoke

1009
00:38:16,490 --> 00:38:15,000
is something that will do that even some

1010
00:38:18,109 --> 00:38:16,500
you know perfumes and colognes will do

1011
00:38:19,490 --> 00:38:18,119
that but I don't think I've ever I've

1012
00:38:20,810 --> 00:38:19,500
ever heard of cinnamon doing that so

1013
00:38:22,310 --> 00:38:20,820
that's interesting it might imply that

1014
00:38:24,050 --> 00:38:22,320
there's something genuine going on there

1015
00:38:25,970 --> 00:38:24,060
not to say that you aren't genuine but

1016
00:38:28,609 --> 00:38:25,980
to imply that that's actually a part of

1017
00:38:31,010 --> 00:38:28,619
something anomalous yeah yeah I mean

1018
00:38:33,170 --> 00:38:31,020
when I I'd go through the session and it

1019
00:38:35,329 --> 00:38:33,180
came up many times and he was part of my

1020
00:38:37,609 --> 00:38:35,339
notes too that uh

1021
00:38:40,069 --> 00:38:37,619
this cinnamon smell would pop up every

1022
00:38:42,950 --> 00:38:40,079
once in a while it was like I I really

1023
00:38:45,349 --> 00:38:42,960
had no idea why I was doing that but I

1024
00:38:49,089 --> 00:38:45,359
associated with um

1025
00:38:54,050 --> 00:38:49,099
the uh the energies that I was actually

1026
00:38:55,790 --> 00:38:54,060
rving or trying to try to determine or

1027
00:38:59,050 --> 00:38:55,800
something that showed up in the RV and

1028
00:39:01,190 --> 00:38:59,060
that cinnamon you know you figure

1029
00:39:03,290 --> 00:39:01,200
subconsciously how are you getting some

1030
00:39:05,630 --> 00:39:03,300
type of smell coming to you but you pick

1031
00:39:06,890 --> 00:39:05,640
it up it's weird well and what I

1032
00:39:10,609 --> 00:39:06,900
discovered when I was riding the

1033
00:39:12,109 --> 00:39:10,619
brimstone deceit was that uh man it was

1034
00:39:13,750 --> 00:39:12,119
it that was just a rabbit hole I could

1035
00:39:16,730 --> 00:39:13,760
have just tumbled down endlessly because

1036
00:39:19,130 --> 00:39:16,740
the science around exactly how we smell

1037
00:39:21,109 --> 00:39:19,140
is pretty shaky

1038
00:39:23,089 --> 00:39:21,119
um I don't think you know at least as of

1039
00:39:25,370 --> 00:39:23,099
2016 there wasn't really an agreed on

1040
00:39:27,950 --> 00:39:25,380
model some people were even starting to

1041
00:39:30,589 --> 00:39:27,960
bring quantum physics into the equation

1042
00:39:32,329 --> 00:39:30,599
um but also like there's an entire

1043
00:39:33,770 --> 00:39:32,339
um there's an entire corner of

1044
00:39:35,990 --> 00:39:33,780
philosophy that just looks at the

1045
00:39:38,510 --> 00:39:36,000
philosophy of smell it's like I would

1046
00:39:40,010 --> 00:39:38,520
never have thought of that so yeah it's

1047
00:39:41,329 --> 00:39:40,020
it's it's something that you just you

1048
00:39:43,130 --> 00:39:41,339
could

1049
00:39:45,349 --> 00:39:43,140
I find fascinating and it's something

1050
00:39:47,030 --> 00:39:45,359
that you could probably just keep on

1051
00:39:48,770 --> 00:39:47,040
researching for as long as you wanted to

1052
00:39:53,470 --> 00:39:48,780
and still not have any answers so smell

1053
00:39:56,870 --> 00:39:53,480
is kind of weird in and of itself

1054
00:39:58,790 --> 00:39:56,880
that book is fascinating I I I I have

1055
00:40:02,030 --> 00:39:58,800
read a couple times now because it's

1056
00:40:04,069 --> 00:40:02,040
just it's amazing and it you kind of I

1057
00:40:06,109 --> 00:40:04,079
connect with it because I you know when

1058
00:40:07,550 --> 00:40:06,119
you get into an investigation it's

1059
00:40:11,089 --> 00:40:07,560
interesting some of the stuff you do

1060
00:40:13,609 --> 00:40:11,099
pick up on but uh yeah

1061
00:40:16,970 --> 00:40:13,619
uh I got a question from Nancy Malcolm

1062
00:40:20,089 --> 00:40:16,980
or all beings Faye goes et's made of the

1063
00:40:22,130 --> 00:40:20,099
same type of materials

1064
00:40:24,230 --> 00:40:22,140
so if we're talking about

1065
00:40:25,730 --> 00:40:24,240
if we're talking about you know physical

1066
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:25,740
materials

1067
00:40:27,650 --> 00:40:26,400
um

1068
00:40:29,030 --> 00:40:27,660
I mean

1069
00:40:30,770 --> 00:40:29,040
first of all I don't have the definitive

1070
00:40:32,390 --> 00:40:30,780
answer on this right like I don't I

1071
00:40:33,650 --> 00:40:32,400
don't have the market cornered on this

1072
00:40:34,609 --> 00:40:33,660
answer

1073
00:40:37,910 --> 00:40:34,619
um

1074
00:40:40,250 --> 00:40:37,920
I'm inclined to think that there is some

1075
00:40:42,109 --> 00:40:40,260
overlap there physically

1076
00:40:44,569 --> 00:40:42,119
um simply because a lot of these things

1077
00:40:46,609 --> 00:40:44,579
tend to exhibit the same

1078
00:40:48,650 --> 00:40:46,619
behaviors when interacting with objects

1079
00:40:51,050 --> 00:40:48,660
right I mean you've got they all can

1080
00:40:52,370 --> 00:40:51,060
pass through walls they all seem to be

1081
00:40:53,870 --> 00:40:52,380
able to float

1082
00:40:55,490 --> 00:40:53,880
um you know there are some interesting

1083
00:40:57,770 --> 00:40:55,500
correlations that you can draw between

1084
00:40:59,569 --> 00:40:57,780
people who have made contact with

1085
00:41:01,430 --> 00:40:59,579
fairies and people have made contact

1086
00:41:02,510 --> 00:41:01,440
with aliens I'll provide some specific

1087
00:41:03,589 --> 00:41:02,520
examples

1088
00:41:06,050 --> 00:41:03,599
um if you look through the literature

1089
00:41:07,370 --> 00:41:06,060
oftentimes people will say that the you

1090
00:41:08,870 --> 00:41:07,380
know the alien flesh the

1091
00:41:10,910 --> 00:41:08,880
Extraterrestrial flesh especially in the

1092
00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:10,920
case of the Grays is kind of soft and

1093
00:41:15,770 --> 00:41:13,440
spongy this is certainly what Travis

1094
00:41:17,630 --> 00:41:15,780
Walton said and uh if memory serves

1095
00:41:18,890 --> 00:41:17,640
again I know he's coming up a lot but I

1096
00:41:21,410 --> 00:41:18,900
think at least three percent that as

1097
00:41:22,550 --> 00:41:21,420
well but there's some other um oh I

1098
00:41:23,870 --> 00:41:22,560
can't remember her name but it's the

1099
00:41:26,030 --> 00:41:23,880
West Virginia witness who supposedly

1100
00:41:27,650 --> 00:41:26,040
snapped a gray alien's neck like she'd

1101
00:41:28,790 --> 00:41:27,660
sort of like squeezed her fist and it

1102
00:41:31,849 --> 00:41:28,800
snapped the neck I can't remember her

1103
00:41:34,849 --> 00:41:31,859
name Patsy Wingate maybe yeah

1104
00:41:39,109 --> 00:41:34,859
but uh so you get this this squishy sort

1105
00:41:41,810 --> 00:41:39,119
of porous kind of uh I sort of uh

1106
00:41:44,390 --> 00:41:41,820
impression from these stories which puts

1107
00:41:47,150 --> 00:41:44,400
me in the mind of of uh you know a

1108
00:41:49,609 --> 00:41:47,160
corpse honestly but um also puts me in

1109
00:41:52,730 --> 00:41:49,619
the mindset of one of the things that

1110
00:41:55,550 --> 00:41:52,740
was said about the fairy folk in Robert

1111
00:41:56,870 --> 00:41:55,560
Kirk's the secret Commonwealth of

1112
00:41:59,030 --> 00:41:56,880
I can't remember the full title ever

1113
00:42:00,470 --> 00:41:59,040
it's the secret Commonwealth of seder's

1114
00:42:02,870 --> 00:42:00,480
fawns and elves or something on the

1115
00:42:05,690 --> 00:42:02,880
secret Commonwealth Robert Kirk

1116
00:42:08,810 --> 00:42:05,700
um and he said that the the good folk

1117
00:42:11,150 --> 00:42:08,820
the fairy folk had sponges bodies which

1118
00:42:15,470 --> 00:42:11,160
they uh took food in through basically

1119
00:42:16,970 --> 00:42:15,480
osmosis and you know I'll be darned uh

1120
00:42:20,810 --> 00:42:16,980
if you look at some of the especially

1121
00:42:23,750 --> 00:42:20,820
like that 90s UFO literature like uh the

1122
00:42:25,550 --> 00:42:23,760
uh was it the Krill memo and stuff like

1123
00:42:27,170 --> 00:42:25,560
that like really old school conspiracy

1124
00:42:29,510 --> 00:42:27,180
stuff but if you look into that you'll

1125
00:42:31,069 --> 00:42:29,520
see these stories about aliens taking in

1126
00:42:32,569 --> 00:42:31,079
nutrients through their skin I mean that

1127
00:42:34,970 --> 00:42:32,579
that sort of even pops up in some of

1128
00:42:36,589 --> 00:42:34,980
John Mack's work as well so from a

1129
00:42:37,490 --> 00:42:36,599
physical standpoint I would say yes now

1130
00:42:39,170 --> 00:42:37,500
if we're talking like from a

1131
00:42:41,329 --> 00:42:39,180
metaphysical standpoint

1132
00:42:43,910 --> 00:42:41,339
I'm probably more convinced of that

1133
00:42:45,770 --> 00:42:43,920
myself nowadays and it ties into that

1134
00:42:47,690 --> 00:42:45,780
idea that like all these distinctions

1135
00:42:50,329 --> 00:42:47,700
that we have between everything

1136
00:42:51,950 --> 00:42:50,339
sort of blur once you get past this

1137
00:42:53,150 --> 00:42:51,960
threshold whatever death really

1138
00:42:54,710 --> 00:42:53,160
represents

1139
00:42:56,870 --> 00:42:54,720
um and that's a very you know a very

1140
00:42:58,910 --> 00:42:56,880
animist Outlook you know the idea that

1141
00:43:00,650 --> 00:42:58,920
everything kind of has a soul including

1142
00:43:03,170 --> 00:43:00,660
mountains and rivers and stuff like that

1143
00:43:04,550 --> 00:43:03,180
but it's also a very sort of monist

1144
00:43:07,670 --> 00:43:04,560
Outlook if you're familiar with the

1145
00:43:09,109 --> 00:43:07,680
tenets of monism modism says that

1146
00:43:11,210 --> 00:43:09,119
all these distinctions that we have

1147
00:43:13,670 --> 00:43:11,220
especially the brain or the either the

1148
00:43:15,230 --> 00:43:13,680
Mind Body distinctions are are Illusions

1149
00:43:16,250 --> 00:43:15,240
and just everything is one with

1150
00:43:18,050 --> 00:43:16,260
everything

1151
00:43:20,150 --> 00:43:18,060
and uh you know that's a line of thought

1152
00:43:21,950 --> 00:43:20,160
that you find time and again

1153
00:43:23,750 --> 00:43:21,960
in a lot of these alien abduction

1154
00:43:25,910 --> 00:43:23,760
stories when they have contacts of a

1155
00:43:29,390 --> 00:43:25,920
spiritual nature they'll be told things

1156
00:43:32,089 --> 00:43:29,400
like it's the me within the uh we are

1157
00:43:34,970 --> 00:43:32,099
one with the one who is all like these

1158
00:43:38,290 --> 00:43:34,980
very sort of UniFi unificatory is that a

1159
00:43:41,390 --> 00:43:38,300
word unifying sort of unifying messages

1160
00:43:43,250 --> 00:43:41,400
yeah it is now I copyrighted it all

1161
00:43:45,650 --> 00:43:43,260
these really unifying messages about

1162
00:43:47,150 --> 00:43:45,660
sort of the Oneness of everything so I

1163
00:43:49,069 --> 00:43:47,160
kind of think

1164
00:43:53,510 --> 00:43:49,079
if if you adopt that stance and the

1165
00:43:58,190 --> 00:43:55,430
if you use a lot in the book and it's a

1166
00:44:01,490 --> 00:43:58,200
word I haven't heard or read for such a

1167
00:44:05,630 --> 00:44:01,500
long time is a psychopath

1168
00:44:08,390 --> 00:44:05,640
oh man I mean Lon this was like

1169
00:44:10,370 --> 00:44:08,400
that was sort of the one of the

1170
00:44:12,050 --> 00:44:10,380
Genesis points of this book was that

1171
00:44:14,990 --> 00:44:12,060
psychopop idea

1172
00:44:17,329 --> 00:44:15,000
um and I think you know just as the

1173
00:44:19,130 --> 00:44:17,339
connection between the dead and fairies

1174
00:44:21,530 --> 00:44:19,140
lurks in the background of passport to

1175
00:44:22,849 --> 00:44:21,540
Magonia I think that the psychopop

1176
00:44:26,210 --> 00:44:22,859
connection

1177
00:44:27,650 --> 00:44:26,220
lurks in the background of another one

1178
00:44:29,750 --> 00:44:27,660
of my favorite books on the Paranormal

1179
00:44:31,309 --> 00:44:29,760
which is George P Hansen's the trickster

1180
00:44:33,230 --> 00:44:31,319
in the Paranormal

1181
00:44:35,569 --> 00:44:33,240
um because he goes at Great length to

1182
00:44:38,270 --> 00:44:35,579
describe certain trickster figures but

1183
00:44:39,710 --> 00:44:38,280
there is this thing lurking in the

1184
00:44:41,930 --> 00:44:39,720
background where at least some of these

1185
00:44:43,730 --> 00:44:41,940
trickster figures are also Psychopaths

1186
00:44:46,190 --> 00:44:43,740
and that makes sense because tricksters

1187
00:44:48,230 --> 00:44:46,200
are you know gods and goddesses of the

1188
00:44:50,329 --> 00:44:48,240
threshold and what's the biggest

1189
00:44:52,490 --> 00:44:50,339
threshold that there is it's it's

1190
00:44:55,190 --> 00:44:52,500
um it's death so in case anybody's

1191
00:44:57,829 --> 00:44:55,200
wondering psychopomps are beings that

1192
00:45:00,710 --> 00:44:57,839
are charged with the transition from

1193
00:45:02,690 --> 00:45:00,720
life into death so we're talking about

1194
00:45:05,270 --> 00:45:02,700
Hermes being a

1195
00:45:09,170 --> 00:45:05,280
huge probably the most famous psychopath

1196
00:45:10,490 --> 00:45:09,180
uh the jackal-headed god Anubis

1197
00:45:12,470 --> 00:45:10,500
um but a lot of different cultures have

1198
00:45:15,470 --> 00:45:12,480
these things you know Australian uh

1199
00:45:18,170 --> 00:45:15,480
indigenous Australians in certain parts

1200
00:45:20,150 --> 00:45:18,180
of Australia uh believed in Barnum beer

1201
00:45:22,490 --> 00:45:20,160
who was the star that would sort of lead

1202
00:45:24,410 --> 00:45:22,500
people to the afterlife and even natural

1203
00:45:26,210 --> 00:45:24,420
phenomena like the Sun and the Moon you

1204
00:45:28,670 --> 00:45:26,220
know the sun is reborn every day and

1205
00:45:29,990 --> 00:45:28,680
takes people to the underworld and comes

1206
00:45:34,309 --> 00:45:30,000
back

1207
00:45:36,109 --> 00:45:34,319
um but also animals and right the

1208
00:45:38,870 --> 00:45:36,119
animals that you see time and again

1209
00:45:40,190 --> 00:45:38,880
throughout cultures and you know we say

1210
00:45:41,630 --> 00:45:40,200
some things are Universal and they're

1211
00:45:45,230 --> 00:45:41,640
kind of not Universal but when I say

1212
00:45:48,410 --> 00:45:45,240
Universal I mean universal the three

1213
00:45:50,510 --> 00:45:48,420
most prominent Universal psychopomps are

1214
00:45:52,849 --> 00:45:50,520
dogs horses and birds

1215
00:45:55,010 --> 00:45:52,859
and uh

1216
00:45:57,530 --> 00:45:55,020
you know there are a lot of UFO dog

1217
00:45:59,390 --> 00:45:57,540
stories there are a lot there are plenty

1218
00:46:01,190 --> 00:45:59,400
of UFO horror stories but man the UFO

1219
00:46:03,829 --> 00:46:01,200
Bird stories and then when you unpack

1220
00:46:08,150 --> 00:46:03,839
the fact that cultures around the world

1221
00:46:11,089 --> 00:46:08,160
thought that owls were like the most

1222
00:46:13,430 --> 00:46:11,099
psychopompey of birds psychopops and you

1223
00:46:15,470 --> 00:46:13,440
know my story on going out yeah yeah

1224
00:46:17,510 --> 00:46:15,480
exactly I know yeah yeah I was just

1225
00:46:20,750 --> 00:46:17,520
thinking about that um at your wife's

1226
00:46:22,670 --> 00:46:20,760
passing right right yeah and you know

1227
00:46:23,930 --> 00:46:22,680
the work of Mike clelland talking about

1228
00:46:25,250 --> 00:46:23,940
owls and that's just one of those

1229
00:46:27,650 --> 00:46:25,260
moments when everything sort of clicked

1230
00:46:30,050 --> 00:46:27,660
for me I'm like oh is that what this is

1231
00:46:31,730 --> 00:46:30,060
so there's this through life throughout

1232
00:46:34,130 --> 00:46:31,740
the book it just says you're right um

1233
00:46:36,589 --> 00:46:34,140
that uh that

1234
00:46:37,849 --> 00:46:36,599
a lot of the things that we see in the

1235
00:46:40,309 --> 00:46:37,859
UFO

1236
00:46:42,109 --> 00:46:40,319
um phenomenon do have a lot of these

1237
00:46:44,510 --> 00:46:42,119
attributes of these psycho pumps and

1238
00:46:47,089 --> 00:46:44,520
sometimes uh in in book two I go into

1239
00:46:49,970 --> 00:46:47,099
how some UFO occupants literally

1240
00:46:51,349 --> 00:46:49,980
resemble Psychopaths I mean you know you

1241
00:46:53,450 --> 00:46:51,359
know abrahamic religions don't really

1242
00:46:56,750 --> 00:46:53,460
have psychopomps that's kind of just

1243
00:46:58,609 --> 00:46:56,760
God's domain but Angels could serve in

1244
00:46:59,809 --> 00:46:58,619
that capacity and you know the number of

1245
00:47:02,210 --> 00:46:59,819
people who have drawn comparisons

1246
00:47:04,069 --> 00:47:02,220
between UFO occupants and Angels is just

1247
00:47:06,170 --> 00:47:04,079
you know Legion

1248
00:47:07,730 --> 00:47:06,180
um so it's it's it's definitely a

1249
00:47:10,790 --> 00:47:07,740
through line that that's in there and

1250
00:47:12,829 --> 00:47:10,800
you know as luck would have it there are

1251
00:47:16,849 --> 00:47:12,839
a couple of stories of fairies taking

1252
00:47:18,410 --> 00:47:16,859
people away at death as well so

1253
00:47:19,849 --> 00:47:18,420
I don't I don't know if I've got it

1254
00:47:21,950 --> 00:47:19,859
right I don't know if this is

1255
00:47:24,650 --> 00:47:21,960
objectively true but there's something

1256
00:47:26,930 --> 00:47:24,660
there I can I can confidently yeah I

1257
00:47:28,490 --> 00:47:26,940
think there is yeah uh you know it's

1258
00:47:31,670 --> 00:47:28,500
interesting when I when I started

1259
00:47:33,170 --> 00:47:31,680
mentioning uh about all the owls I was

1260
00:47:35,990 --> 00:47:33,180
seeing when she was sick and then when

1261
00:47:38,990 --> 00:47:36,000
she eventually passed away and I talked

1262
00:47:42,349 --> 00:47:39,000
to Mike cleano about this as well and uh

1263
00:47:44,470 --> 00:47:42,359
it's um I I got so much response from

1264
00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:44,480
that because a lot of people

1265
00:47:48,530 --> 00:47:46,319
experience that

1266
00:47:49,849 --> 00:47:48,540
well and I remembered it too and it's

1267
00:47:51,470 --> 00:47:49,859
interesting I just saw somebody asking

1268
00:47:54,170 --> 00:47:51,480
if crows could be psychopomps I have a

1269
00:47:55,790 --> 00:47:54,180
good friend who uh whose grandfather

1270
00:47:58,069 --> 00:47:55,800
passed away and one of the memories that

1271
00:48:00,410 --> 00:47:58,079
he has is of pulling up to the house and

1272
00:48:02,750 --> 00:48:00,420
he walks by this old boat that his

1273
00:48:04,790 --> 00:48:02,760
grandfather had in the yard and sitting

1274
00:48:08,030 --> 00:48:04,800
on it is a crow

1275
00:48:10,190 --> 00:48:08,040
now crows are not Ravens but you know

1276
00:48:11,930 --> 00:48:10,200
they're both corvins so

1277
00:48:13,309 --> 00:48:11,940
that sort of puts me in the mind not

1278
00:48:14,990 --> 00:48:13,319
only the fact that

1279
00:48:17,450 --> 00:48:15,000
you know so many birds can be

1280
00:48:19,010 --> 00:48:17,460
psychopomps but crows and ravens were

1281
00:48:21,230 --> 00:48:19,020
part of that Ravens especially in the

1282
00:48:24,170 --> 00:48:21,240
Norse tradition because Odin among his

1283
00:48:28,130 --> 00:48:24,180
many duties was also a psychopath but it

1284
00:48:29,690 --> 00:48:28,140
was a it was a a crow sitting on a boat

1285
00:48:31,550 --> 00:48:29,700
and that's another one of those

1286
00:48:33,589 --> 00:48:31,560
psychopop symbols you just cannot get

1287
00:48:36,530 --> 00:48:33,599
away from is the boat and you know our

1288
00:48:38,569 --> 00:48:36,540
earliest coffins were boats uh people

1289
00:48:40,430 --> 00:48:38,579
are familiar with uh with with Charon

1290
00:48:42,530 --> 00:48:40,440
you know the Greek ferryman who would

1291
00:48:45,170 --> 00:48:42,540
take you across the river sticks rivers

1292
00:48:46,510 --> 00:48:45,180
are a big afterlife border uh symbol as

1293
00:48:50,270 --> 00:48:46,520
well so

1294
00:48:51,710 --> 00:48:50,280
you have the boat as the symbol of death

1295
00:48:53,329 --> 00:48:51,720
and you can find this in North Ship

1296
00:48:54,829 --> 00:48:53,339
burials and Viking funerals it just it's

1297
00:48:58,849 --> 00:48:54,839
it's a thing it's another one of those

1298
00:49:02,390 --> 00:48:58,859
universals and what happens I love this

1299
00:49:04,010 --> 00:49:02,400
what happens when a culture has mapped

1300
00:49:05,809 --> 00:49:04,020
the entire world and knows that the

1301
00:49:07,370 --> 00:49:05,819
afterlife in the other world isn't

1302
00:49:08,990 --> 00:49:07,380
across the sea and it's not over this

1303
00:49:10,670 --> 00:49:09,000
mountain range what where do we where do

1304
00:49:13,990 --> 00:49:10,680
we put that afterlife where do we put

1305
00:49:16,430 --> 00:49:14,000
the other world we put it in the Stars

1306
00:49:18,109 --> 00:49:16,440
not that it wasn't always there at some

1307
00:49:19,849 --> 00:49:18,119
point but like that's kind of where we

1308
00:49:21,530 --> 00:49:19,859
is sort of like if there's any

1309
00:49:23,510 --> 00:49:21,540
secularists who think that there's

1310
00:49:24,950 --> 00:49:23,520
something else to what's going on here

1311
00:49:28,490 --> 00:49:24,960
on this planet we think about the stars

1312
00:49:32,150 --> 00:49:28,500
and how do you get to the Stars

1313
00:49:36,230 --> 00:49:32,160
you get there in a spaceship boat you

1314
00:49:38,329 --> 00:49:36,240
get there in the UFO I mean the UFO as a

1315
00:49:41,089 --> 00:49:38,339
symbol is so dependent upon

1316
00:49:42,770 --> 00:49:41,099
transportation and it's these motifs of

1317
00:49:44,990 --> 00:49:42,780
transportation that really Define a lot

1318
00:49:46,730 --> 00:49:45,000
of the psychopath War birds can reach

1319
00:49:48,410 --> 00:49:46,740
places that we can't horses can go

1320
00:49:50,930 --> 00:49:48,420
places we can't the only outlier in

1321
00:49:52,790 --> 00:49:50,940
those three big psychopomps is dogs but

1322
00:49:54,349 --> 00:49:52,800
dogs you know are Companions and they

1323
00:49:56,390 --> 00:49:54,359
they can lead you places

1324
00:49:59,510 --> 00:49:56,400
so I just think that's so interesting

1325
00:50:01,730 --> 00:49:59,520
that like so much of the UFO Mythos is

1326
00:50:03,410 --> 00:50:01,740
obsessed with transportation and that's

1327
00:50:06,530 --> 00:50:03,420
exactly what this afterlife transition

1328
00:50:08,390 --> 00:50:06,540
seems to be absolutely so I I kind of

1329
00:50:09,890 --> 00:50:08,400
wonder if again I'm not saying this is

1330
00:50:11,270 --> 00:50:09,900
all in our minds but I kind of wonder in

1331
00:50:13,069 --> 00:50:11,280
some sort of collective unconscious

1332
00:50:14,690 --> 00:50:13,079
jungian way like there isn't something

1333
00:50:17,270 --> 00:50:14,700
that we has been with us for a long time

1334
00:50:19,309 --> 00:50:17,280
and as we've grown more technologically

1335
00:50:22,550 --> 00:50:19,319
obsessed and more secular we haven't

1336
00:50:24,109 --> 00:50:22,560
made it into something that is a flying

1337
00:50:25,430 --> 00:50:24,119
saucer and it's always been there it's

1338
00:50:28,069 --> 00:50:25,440
the same as it's always been but this is

1339
00:50:29,990 --> 00:50:28,079
just the way that we see it now yeah I

1340
00:50:31,910 --> 00:50:30,000
mean it what's interesting to me about

1341
00:50:34,010 --> 00:50:31,920
that is that

1342
00:50:38,390 --> 00:50:34,020
um you know you talked about the Vikings

1343
00:50:41,210 --> 00:50:38,400
and the uh their use of the uh the the

1344
00:50:44,870 --> 00:50:41,220
ship Aerials and you know and then of

1345
00:50:47,450 --> 00:50:44,880
course the Egyptians and the using yep

1346
00:50:49,970 --> 00:50:47,460
yeah uh you know to go across the star

1347
00:50:52,730 --> 00:50:49,980
to go across the heavens and you know

1348
00:50:55,490 --> 00:50:52,740
that when the Pharaoh dies he go you

1349
00:50:58,250 --> 00:50:55,500
know he travels with the Sun across each

1350
00:51:00,410 --> 00:50:58,260
day and each morning he wait he rises

1351
00:51:03,349 --> 00:51:00,420
with the sun with it on his ship and and

1352
00:51:05,510 --> 00:51:03,359
the Sun is an identified flying object I

1353
00:51:07,250 --> 00:51:05,520
mean it's a it's a glowing Circle in the

1354
00:51:09,950 --> 00:51:07,260
sky and some of these Egyptian

1355
00:51:13,309 --> 00:51:09,960
underworlds were Stellar underworlds and

1356
00:51:14,930 --> 00:51:13,319
uh I mean yeah it's just and

1357
00:51:16,910 --> 00:51:14,940
here's the thing that I found so

1358
00:51:19,190 --> 00:51:16,920
fascinating about this lawn is that it

1359
00:51:20,450 --> 00:51:19,200
kind of locked a lot of things in for me

1360
00:51:21,589 --> 00:51:20,460
and I don't know if it's again I don't

1361
00:51:24,109 --> 00:51:21,599
know if it's true but it works for me

1362
00:51:26,150 --> 00:51:24,119
right so like when I think about dogs as

1363
00:51:28,730 --> 00:51:26,160
psychopomps and I think about Anubis and

1364
00:51:31,430 --> 00:51:28,740
then I think about dog men I'm like

1365
00:51:33,049 --> 00:51:31,440
okay this kind of makes some sense and

1366
00:51:35,030 --> 00:51:33,059
then I hear these stories which I'm sure

1367
00:51:38,329 --> 00:51:35,040
you've heard too of like people who see

1368
00:51:39,950 --> 00:51:38,339
a UFO turn into a bird or somebody sees

1369
00:51:41,569 --> 00:51:39,960
a UFO and somebody else sees a bird

1370
00:51:44,270 --> 00:51:41,579
they're like that's not a bird CFO and

1371
00:51:45,589 --> 00:51:44,280
that's not a UFO that's a bird and you

1372
00:51:48,410 --> 00:51:45,599
know if

1373
00:51:49,970 --> 00:51:48,420
if birds are psychopops then it kind of

1374
00:51:52,250 --> 00:51:49,980
makes perfect sense and this isn't even

1375
00:51:53,270 --> 00:51:52,260
getting into this isn't even going down

1376
00:51:54,770 --> 00:51:53,280
the rabbit hole that's one of my

1377
00:51:55,790 --> 00:51:54,780
favorite rabbit holes which is the idea

1378
00:52:00,530 --> 00:51:55,800
that

1379
00:52:03,170 --> 00:52:00,540
especially those of the sort of orb of

1380
00:52:05,270 --> 00:52:03,180
light variety are literal Souls you know

1381
00:52:06,349 --> 00:52:05,280
and so the bird Soul was another one of

1382
00:52:08,450 --> 00:52:06,359
those universals that you'll find

1383
00:52:10,190 --> 00:52:08,460
everywhere the idea that the soul you

1384
00:52:13,190 --> 00:52:10,200
know exits the body in the shape or form

1385
00:52:16,370 --> 00:52:13,200
of a bird so it's just it's just it

1386
00:52:17,809 --> 00:52:16,380
keeps on it was a lot more rewarding to

1387
00:52:19,430 --> 00:52:17,819
explore these things than I thought it

1388
00:52:20,750 --> 00:52:19,440
was and again that's what that's what

1389
00:52:22,370 --> 00:52:20,760
kind of scares me is because I find it

1390
00:52:29,329 --> 00:52:22,380
so attractive so

1391
00:52:33,710 --> 00:52:32,450
person gets close death or

1392
00:52:36,650 --> 00:52:33,720
or death

1393
00:52:38,690 --> 00:52:36,660
unknowingly trigger these things I I

1394
00:52:40,910 --> 00:52:38,700
mean I would think so I have a couple of

1395
00:52:42,650 --> 00:52:40,920
stories in the book about uh deathbed

1396
00:52:45,290 --> 00:52:42,660
visitations from fairies

1397
00:52:47,450 --> 00:52:45,300
um the number of people who have

1398
00:52:49,430 --> 00:52:47,460
had people with them

1399
00:52:51,650 --> 00:52:49,440
while they're on their deathbed see

1400
00:52:53,930 --> 00:52:51,660
anomalous lights in the room is pretty

1401
00:52:56,329 --> 00:52:53,940
striking some of them really prominent

1402
00:52:58,130 --> 00:52:56,339
uh people who were contacted by aliens I

1403
00:53:00,049 --> 00:52:58,140
believe was can you remember the name of

1404
00:53:01,549 --> 00:53:00,059
the exact abduction but Elaine Thomas

1405
00:53:03,109 --> 00:53:01,559
was one of the witnesses and one of them

1406
00:53:05,030 --> 00:53:03,119
was getting ready to die and the nurse

1407
00:53:07,609 --> 00:53:05,040
saw lights in the room and she said oh

1408
00:53:10,010 --> 00:53:07,619
no that's just the UFO you know UFO

1409
00:53:12,770 --> 00:53:10,020
Pilots coming to take me Howard menger's

1410
00:53:14,809 --> 00:53:12,780
son the famous contactee Howard minger

1411
00:53:17,450 --> 00:53:14,819
um there were lights that were observed

1412
00:53:18,950 --> 00:53:17,460
all around his deathbed and he told his

1413
00:53:21,470 --> 00:53:18,960
parents those are just the people from

1414
00:53:23,809 --> 00:53:21,480
Orion coming to get me

1415
00:53:24,950 --> 00:53:23,819
um and you know so so and and then you

1416
00:53:27,530 --> 00:53:24,960
have this other thread that you can pull

1417
00:53:30,349 --> 00:53:27,540
out of uh of UFOs is kind of being death

1418
00:53:32,210 --> 00:53:30,359
of so I mean Ted Phillips famous

1419
00:53:34,069 --> 00:53:32,220
um you know person who claimed to have

1420
00:53:36,170 --> 00:53:34,079
inherited his psychic abilities from

1421
00:53:38,809 --> 00:53:36,180
contact with space people

1422
00:53:40,430 --> 00:53:38,819
um was his his home was sort of

1423
00:53:41,930 --> 00:53:40,440
bombarded with UFO sightings both

1424
00:53:43,490 --> 00:53:41,940
reported by him and reported by his

1425
00:53:47,030 --> 00:53:43,500
neighbors just before his death as well

1426
00:53:48,290 --> 00:53:47,040
and the list just goes on from there

1427
00:53:49,970 --> 00:53:48,300
hmm

1428
00:53:53,569 --> 00:53:49,980
you know um

1429
00:53:56,329 --> 00:53:53,579
I find it fascinating I I'm I'm really

1430
00:53:57,290 --> 00:53:56,339
into Egyptian history but

1431
00:53:59,569 --> 00:53:57,300
um

1432
00:54:03,650 --> 00:53:59,579
just like the odd

1433
00:54:07,309 --> 00:54:03,660
and the sudden change to the art and uh

1434
00:54:09,890 --> 00:54:07,319
by uh I'm at hope that IV or Oxnard or

1435
00:54:11,750 --> 00:54:09,900
however you want to call him uh I

1436
00:54:15,049 --> 00:54:11,760
believe there's an extraterrestrial

1437
00:54:16,790 --> 00:54:15,059
aspect to that a possible sighting of a

1438
00:54:19,010 --> 00:54:16,800
of a craft

1439
00:54:21,349 --> 00:54:19,020
that initiated that in the beginning now

1440
00:54:24,170 --> 00:54:21,359
of course there's no evidence of that

1441
00:54:26,990 --> 00:54:24,180
right you know you you know so many

1442
00:54:28,010 --> 00:54:27,000
interpretations of that 18th Dynasty in

1443
00:54:31,069 --> 00:54:28,020
particular

1444
00:54:32,569 --> 00:54:31,079
but the sudden change of religion has

1445
00:54:34,970 --> 00:54:32,579
really fascinated me from the very

1446
00:54:36,470 --> 00:54:34,980
beginning and uh I think it's something

1447
00:54:40,430 --> 00:54:36,480
that may have happened and I wrote about

1448
00:54:43,250 --> 00:54:40,440
it in my a bit about it in my UFO uh my

1449
00:54:45,710 --> 00:54:43,260
uh Alien disclosure book where I believe

1450
00:54:47,990 --> 00:54:45,720
that during I'm an Hotel there's rain

1451
00:54:50,809 --> 00:54:48,000
that something occurred

1452
00:54:52,370 --> 00:54:50,819
uh where

1453
00:54:55,370 --> 00:54:52,380
where possibly the royal family and

1454
00:54:57,650 --> 00:54:55,380
others had seen this craft

1455
00:54:59,690 --> 00:54:57,660
yeah I mean if you look back through a

1456
00:55:01,010 --> 00:54:59,700
lot of those texts it sounds like that I

1457
00:55:03,589 --> 00:55:01,020
mean there was an example that Springs

1458
00:55:05,030 --> 00:55:03,599
to mind from uh Chris albex and Jacques

1459
00:55:07,370 --> 00:55:05,040
valet's wonders in the sky where they're

1460
00:55:09,770 --> 00:55:07,380
talking about the uh invading Nubian

1461
00:55:12,770 --> 00:55:09,780
Army being just decimated by a star that

1462
00:55:14,510 --> 00:55:12,780
descended so you know where I am

1463
00:55:16,069 --> 00:55:14,520
currently is I'm not sure if it's

1464
00:55:17,450 --> 00:55:16,079
extraterrestrials I'm not sure if it's

1465
00:55:20,630 --> 00:55:17,460
something you know for lack of a better

1466
00:55:22,750 --> 00:55:20,640
term more spiritual but I think a lot of

1467
00:55:25,549 --> 00:55:22,760
the UFO

1468
00:55:27,170 --> 00:55:25,559
observation I think I think that the

1469
00:55:28,549 --> 00:55:27,180
academics kind of have it right like I

1470
00:55:30,290 --> 00:55:28,559
think that the proper way to view a lot

1471
00:55:32,569 --> 00:55:30,300
of this stuff is through the context of

1472
00:55:35,450 --> 00:55:32,579
religious experience even if it isn't

1473
00:55:37,430 --> 00:55:35,460
religious even if it is uh you know

1474
00:55:39,170 --> 00:55:37,440
Flesh and Blood extraterrestrials

1475
00:55:40,790 --> 00:55:39,180
I still think that viewing it through

1476
00:55:43,609 --> 00:55:40,800
that sort of religious

1477
00:55:45,170 --> 00:55:43,619
um sociological lens is is an important

1478
00:55:47,390 --> 00:55:45,180
way to look at it because I think that

1479
00:55:49,069 --> 00:55:47,400
there's been some sort of interplay

1480
00:55:51,309 --> 00:55:49,079
between our beliefs and what we've been

1481
00:55:53,990 --> 00:55:51,319
seeing in the sky for a long time

1482
00:55:55,849 --> 00:55:54,000
I think that you know a lot of the

1483
00:55:58,730 --> 00:55:55,859
things that we see today

1484
00:56:00,170 --> 00:55:58,740
you know seven thousand years ago would

1485
00:56:01,430 --> 00:56:00,180
have been thought of in that in that

1486
00:56:05,450 --> 00:56:01,440
context

1487
00:56:07,910 --> 00:56:05,460
you know it's it's hard to to say or to

1488
00:56:09,589 --> 00:56:07,920
to not to not say that there hasn't been

1489
00:56:11,870 --> 00:56:09,599
some type of intervention

1490
00:56:14,450 --> 00:56:11,880
somewhere down the line

1491
00:56:17,390 --> 00:56:14,460
uh yeah because you know it

1492
00:56:20,089 --> 00:56:17,400
you know I was always a very strong

1493
00:56:22,569 --> 00:56:20,099
believer in uh

1494
00:56:30,170 --> 00:56:26,569
I don't know you know the actual you

1495
00:56:33,470 --> 00:56:30,180
know technology Evolution yeah and you

1496
00:56:35,150 --> 00:56:33,480
know but I as you look at it and I'm not

1497
00:56:37,430 --> 00:56:35,160
saying it's intelligent design or

1498
00:56:41,030 --> 00:56:37,440
anything to that degree but I do believe

1499
00:56:44,809 --> 00:56:41,040
there was intervention at some point

1500
00:56:47,089 --> 00:56:44,819
yeah and you know it's if you you know

1501
00:56:48,410 --> 00:56:47,099
this is sort of the oh we're almost

1502
00:56:51,170 --> 00:56:48,420
running out of time

1503
00:56:53,030 --> 00:56:51,180
um this is sort of a a line that I have

1504
00:56:54,410 --> 00:56:53,040
to walk a lot because I am a practicing

1505
00:56:56,690 --> 00:56:54,420
Christian but at the same time I believe

1506
00:56:57,950 --> 00:56:56,700
a lot of these stories so this book is

1507
00:56:59,210 --> 00:56:57,960
I've had people come to me and say this

1508
00:57:01,430 --> 00:56:59,220
book doesn't read like it's written from

1509
00:57:02,030 --> 00:57:01,440
a Christian perspective but

1510
00:57:04,370 --> 00:57:02,040
um

1511
00:57:07,849 --> 00:57:04,380
I think that it definitely is written

1512
00:57:09,770 --> 00:57:07,859
from sort of a a spiritual or paranormal

1513
00:57:12,710 --> 00:57:09,780
sort of perspective and I I think about

1514
00:57:15,049 --> 00:57:12,720
the way that people like to set up

1515
00:57:16,790 --> 00:57:15,059
computer programs now to sort of be

1516
00:57:19,130 --> 00:57:16,800
self-sustaining in a lot of ways to

1517
00:57:21,290 --> 00:57:19,140
learn and to adapt and whatnot and that

1518
00:57:23,990 --> 00:57:21,300
to me sounds very much like what the

1519
00:57:26,630 --> 00:57:24,000
evolutionary process has been and as far

1520
00:57:28,730 --> 00:57:26,640
as like more direct intervention

1521
00:57:30,950 --> 00:57:28,740
I mean we don't necessarily need to go

1522
00:57:33,650 --> 00:57:30,960
down the Ancient Aliens route to to see

1523
00:57:35,270 --> 00:57:33,660
that sort of interaction coming from

1524
00:57:36,890 --> 00:57:35,280
other sources I mean Diana Walsh

1525
00:57:38,329 --> 00:57:36,900
basilka's American Cosmic I think

1526
00:57:39,410 --> 00:57:38,339
Illustrated that really well that's one

1527
00:57:40,910 --> 00:57:39,420
of the people who are really highly

1528
00:57:42,890 --> 00:57:40,920
placed in terms of our technological

1529
00:57:45,530 --> 00:57:42,900
circles claim to be getting information

1530
00:57:47,930 --> 00:57:45,540
from these external sources and you know

1531
00:57:49,970 --> 00:57:47,940
Kerry Mullis who invented the PCR

1532
00:57:52,010 --> 00:57:49,980
technique with which we've always become

1533
00:57:55,130 --> 00:57:52,020
familiar in the past couple of years but

1534
00:57:56,510 --> 00:57:55,140
also revolutionized uh DNA work in the

1535
00:57:58,670 --> 00:57:56,520
laboratory

1536
00:58:02,150 --> 00:57:58,680
um completely uh contributes that

1537
00:58:03,650 --> 00:58:02,160
development to his use of LSD and the

1538
00:58:05,510 --> 00:58:03,660
revelations that he supposedly got under

1539
00:58:07,430 --> 00:58:05,520
the you know under the under that

1540
00:58:08,870 --> 00:58:07,440
influence Nobel Prize winner for that

1541
00:58:10,490 --> 00:58:08,880
Discovery

1542
00:58:12,109 --> 00:58:10,500
um so there does seem to be some sort of

1543
00:58:14,150 --> 00:58:12,119
flow of information between here and

1544
00:58:15,410 --> 00:58:14,160
somewhere else and uh you know in

1545
00:58:17,270 --> 00:58:15,420
addition to

1546
00:58:19,549 --> 00:58:17,280
just all the Little Miracles that we

1547
00:58:22,010 --> 00:58:19,559
experienced day to day in our lives

1548
00:58:23,650 --> 00:58:22,020
you know it's interesting you know I'm a

1549
00:58:26,030 --> 00:58:23,660
child of the 70s

1550
00:58:29,750 --> 00:58:26,040
and I went to high school in the early

1551
00:58:31,370 --> 00:58:29,760
70s and the whole ancient astronaut

1552
00:58:33,349 --> 00:58:31,380
theory

1553
00:58:36,170 --> 00:58:33,359
from the book

1554
00:58:38,450 --> 00:58:36,180
uh I had

1555
00:58:40,010 --> 00:58:38,460
I had science teachers who hit us hard

1556
00:58:42,470 --> 00:58:40,020
on that

1557
00:58:45,109 --> 00:58:42,480
who took it as fact

1558
00:58:49,609 --> 00:58:45,119
that's interesting I mean in the 70s I

1559
00:58:52,370 --> 00:58:49,619
guess right yeah early 70s uh and

1560
00:58:55,250 --> 00:58:52,380
but it's interesting as well how many

1561
00:58:57,470 --> 00:58:55,260
people who I know who were taught that

1562
00:58:59,930 --> 00:58:57,480
in school I mean we had a very

1563
00:59:02,750 --> 00:58:59,940
Progressive science teacher who did this

1564
00:59:04,730 --> 00:59:02,760
he was a Brit and uh

1565
00:59:07,670 --> 00:59:04,740
have kind of changed their thoughts on

1566
00:59:09,470 --> 00:59:07,680
that not that we don't believe it but

1567
00:59:11,770 --> 00:59:09,480
there's been a lot of changes in

1568
00:59:14,390 --> 00:59:11,780
interpretation since then

1569
00:59:15,890 --> 00:59:14,400
well you know a lot of discoveries and I

1570
00:59:18,410 --> 00:59:15,900
think part of the problem that we have

1571
00:59:21,589 --> 00:59:18,420
with a lot of that older stuff is that

1572
00:59:23,450 --> 00:59:21,599
we don't necessarily perceive what older

1573
00:59:24,890 --> 00:59:23,460
cultures might have been able to

1574
00:59:26,750 --> 00:59:24,900
accomplish because we just haven't

1575
00:59:28,910 --> 00:59:26,760
chosen that path a good example what I

1576
00:59:30,650 --> 00:59:28,920
like to think of is uh are these you

1577
00:59:32,210 --> 00:59:30,660
know Egyptian sculptures made of I

1578
00:59:35,450 --> 00:59:32,220
believe it's diorite which you know

1579
00:59:37,370 --> 00:59:35,460
couldn't be chiseled at the same uh

1580
00:59:39,950 --> 00:59:37,380
meticulous level that they were able to

1581
00:59:41,990 --> 00:59:39,960
even with modern tools but I think if if

1582
00:59:44,450 --> 00:59:42,000
we had gone down the technological route

1583
00:59:46,490 --> 00:59:44,460
of treating Stone like plastic we might

1584
00:59:48,589 --> 00:59:46,500
have been able to accomplish that right

1585
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:48,599
but instead but instead we you know are

1586
00:59:54,710 --> 00:59:50,810
all about silicon I guess nowadays

1587
00:59:56,809 --> 00:59:54,720
[Laughter]

1588
00:59:58,670 --> 00:59:56,819
it's great having you on tonight uh tell

1589
01:00:00,589 --> 00:59:58,680
folks I didn't get in contact with you

1590
01:00:06,370 --> 01:00:00,599
and what you got coming up

1591
01:00:10,430 --> 01:00:08,690
j-o-s-h-u-a-c-u-t-c-h-i-n.com uh there

1592
01:00:13,730 --> 01:00:10,440
are there are links there to contact me

1593
01:00:16,670 --> 01:00:13,740
uh I am selling copies of uh an Ecology

1594
01:00:18,890 --> 01:00:16,680
of souls uh directly to folks

1595
01:00:20,569 --> 01:00:18,900
um if you buy them for me I sell if you

1596
01:00:22,069 --> 01:00:20,579
buy them for me together I sell them at

1597
01:00:23,510 --> 01:00:22,079
a discount Amazon doesn't let you do

1598
01:00:25,670 --> 01:00:23,520
that for whatever reason but if you buy

1599
01:00:27,710 --> 01:00:25,680
a volume one and two from me together uh

1600
01:00:29,569 --> 01:00:27,720
I can offer them that way

1601
01:00:31,069 --> 01:00:29,579
um also you know I made an allusion to

1602
01:00:32,870 --> 01:00:31,079
the fact that all the references are in

1603
01:00:34,370 --> 01:00:32,880
a third book that third book is

1604
01:00:36,650 --> 01:00:34,380
completely optional and by completely

1605
01:00:39,230 --> 01:00:36,660
optional I mean that the PDF of it is on

1606
01:00:41,569 --> 01:00:39,240
my website for people it's great it's a

1607
01:00:43,849 --> 01:00:41,579
great reference thanks man I appreciate

1608
01:00:46,910 --> 01:00:43,859
it yeah I I suggest Anybody Everybody

1609
01:00:48,589 --> 01:00:46,920
download that because uh it is a great

1610
01:00:50,930 --> 01:00:48,599
reference I think there are four

1611
01:00:52,910 --> 01:00:50,940
thousand endnotes in the book but right

1612
01:00:55,010 --> 01:00:52,920
but yeah but but you know on top of that

1613
01:00:57,190 --> 01:00:55,020
um I have three appendices uh talking

1614
01:01:00,710 --> 01:00:57,200
about the Dead scene in abductions and

1615
01:01:03,170 --> 01:01:00,720
UFOs around cemeteries as well so uh

1616
01:01:04,370 --> 01:01:03,180
anybody wants to copy reach out to me

1617
01:01:05,930 --> 01:01:04,380
and we'll we'll work it out with

1618
01:01:08,390 --> 01:01:05,940
shipping and handling

1619
01:01:10,150 --> 01:01:08,400
well Josh look anything comes up you

1620
01:01:13,609 --> 01:01:10,160
want to come on and talk about anything

1621
01:01:15,530 --> 01:01:13,619
projects or whatever you know don't be a

1622
01:01:17,270 --> 01:01:15,540
stranger contact me and we'll get you on

1623
01:01:18,410 --> 01:01:17,280
well I appreciate it Lauren we should do

1624
01:01:20,329 --> 01:01:18,420
this like I said we should do this when

1625
01:01:22,789 --> 01:01:20,339
there's not a new book and we can just

1626
01:01:24,289 --> 01:01:22,799
yeah talk ideas back and forth and

1627
01:01:25,549 --> 01:01:24,299
Bernadette yeah because you and I can

1628
01:01:28,609 --> 01:01:25,559
talk forever on a lot of different

1629
01:01:30,589 --> 01:01:28,619
things yeah yeah and uh so yeah I really

1630
01:01:32,450 --> 01:01:30,599
just appreciate all of y'all on what you

1631
01:01:34,490 --> 01:01:32,460
do so keep up the good work will you

1632
01:01:37,970 --> 01:01:34,500
take care and I'll talk to you soon all

1633
01:01:40,010 --> 01:01:37,980
right thanks y'all bye

1634
01:01:41,930 --> 01:01:40,020
now uh if you have a site in your

1635
01:01:44,690 --> 01:01:41,940
encounter report that you'd like to be

1636
01:01:47,329 --> 01:01:44,700
considered for the personal report show

1637
01:01:49,250 --> 01:01:47,339
or even all the fans of March's website

1638
01:01:52,250 --> 01:01:49,260
feel free to email me at launch strict

1639
01:01:54,829 --> 01:01:52,260
with fans and monsters.com

1640
01:01:56,450 --> 01:01:54,839
um I want to again thank Joshua cutson

1641
01:01:58,910 --> 01:01:56,460
for joining me this evening

1642
01:02:00,890 --> 01:01:58,920
it was great catching up with him and

1643
01:02:03,770 --> 01:02:00,900
thanks to each and all you for watching

1644
01:02:05,569 --> 01:02:03,780
and chatting uh your support is what

1645
01:02:08,089 --> 01:02:05,579
makes this possible and that includes

1646
01:02:11,630 --> 01:02:08,099
liking subscribing sharing and also

1647
01:02:13,010 --> 01:02:11,640
making comments now next Friday we are

1648
01:02:16,250 --> 01:02:13,020
presenting Another Round Table

1649
01:02:19,849 --> 01:02:16,260
discussion this time the subject is

1650
01:02:22,849 --> 01:02:19,859
going to be obscure Cryptids so that be

1651
01:02:25,130 --> 01:02:22,859
should be an interesting uh interesting

1652
01:02:26,990 --> 01:02:25,140
discussion we haven't got all all the

1653
01:02:29,630 --> 01:02:27,000
guests lined up yet but we're getting

1654
01:02:31,849 --> 01:02:29,640
there uh there will not be a

1655
01:02:33,109 --> 01:02:31,859
presentation on Wednesday because quite

1656
01:02:36,410 --> 01:02:33,119
frankly I've got a show I'm doing

1657
01:02:38,510 --> 01:02:36,420
somewhere else so but next Friday uh

1658
01:02:41,089 --> 01:02:38,520
join us for that that should be a great

1659
01:02:51,780 --> 01:02:41,099
show so until next week stay healthy and

1660
01:03:41,829 --> 01:03:08,570
[Music]

1661
01:03:45,370 --> 01:03:43,730
thank you